Update: April 14, 2021

Official Expresso Beans Art News.
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finneganm
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:22 pm

I’m rewatching it now. It’s so goddamn good.
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That's what she said
whalaw
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:41 pm

Codeblue wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:55 pm
Luls. the impression I got was not that the upgrades were contingent on a buyout. If dats the case, then I understand your perspective. What it seems like is dat the people who have “power” on this site are frequently asleep at the wheel while a few other volunteers with very little power keep it running on a daily basis. I am willing to volunteer if volunteers are not being taken advantage of and ignored when it comes to their duties (and allowing them to do their duties more efficiently). Is real change something you’re open to tho?
Good Lord, do you always write the way my 11 year niece texts or is that your gimmick? It really detracts from what you have to say.

Upgrades contingent on a buyout? Never heard of it. My ideal scenario would be that a passionate, selfless, tech savvy volunteer (or better yet: volunteers) would/will take the reigns to lead the Upgrade. That hasn't occurred, as of yet. Until then, we have to muddle our way through. And, we're always happy to provide whatever resources we have available to assist any and all volunteers. The issue is, we don't have that many resources. Who's "asleep at the wheel?" If you mean some Team Members who don't actively contribute on a daily basis, there's no doubt about that. From my perspective, even though they provide less than I/we would hope on a daily basis, at least they do take "some" burden off the more active Team Members. We culled the Team about two years ago. I'm ALWAYS open to the exchange of ideas/change, but there are some restrictions/limitations in how this place operates.

wha
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Codeblue
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:08 pm

It certainly sounds like papaver (who appears to be the most active tech team member) said he would lead the upgrade and help rebuild the site. I’m unclear on whether or not he was only willing to do that if you sold him the site. The impression I got was that y’all were dragging yer feet so much on improving the site that he just said lemme buy the whole fudge. If that ain’t the case, so be it.

It also sounded like he wanted a mod to revoke useless team members abilities, but he couldn’t find a mod who was available to make that happen. Perhaps that has changed since then.

P.S. Yes, total schtick. Duh. Mainly started when I was responding to inane posts and just kinda stuck.
RupertPupkin wrote:I live by this rule and this rule alone: people are drymounting idiots.
whalaw
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:59 pm

Codeblue wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:08 pm
It certainly sounds like papaver (who appears to be the most active tech team member) said he would lead the upgrade and help rebuild the site. I’m unclear on whether or not he was only willing to do that if you sold him the site. The impression I got was that y’all were dragging yer feet so much on improving the site that he just said lemme buy the whole fudge. If that ain’t the case, so be it.

It also sounded like he wanted a mod to revoke useless team members abilities, but he couldn’t find a mod who was available to make that happen. Perhaps that has changed since then.

P.S. Yes, total schtick. Duh. Mainly started when I was responding to inane posts and just kinda stuck.
You'd probably need to speak with papaver regarding his perspective. From mine, and speaking generally, selling the site to an individual or entity that wants to monetize the site goes COMPLETELY against what (or at least what I think) EB stands for. EB was built on passionate, selfless volunteerism. Not, profiteering. A position on the Team is a VOLUNTEER position. By definition, that means giving of your efforts and time without an expectation of monetary profit. Regarding less active Team Members, I've already answered that.

wha
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ygolohcysp
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:04 pm

From what I read it sounded like he had a plan for upgrades and no one wanted to let him run with it so he offered to take all the decision making off your plate and just buy it. There are two layers to this exchange, at least what's been publicly posted...maybe I'm wrong?

#1. Let's get fudge done, I'm ready.
#2. Ok if you're not, let me just take over with this money and get things done.
A public relations nightmare

SLAPPED WITH FLIPPING
whalaw
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:31 pm

ygolohcysp wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:04 pm
From what I read it sounded like he had a plan for upgrades and no one wanted to let him run with it so he offered to take all the decision making off your plate and just buy it. There are two layers to this exchange, at least what's been publicly posted...maybe I'm wrong?

#1. Let's get fudge done, I'm ready.
#2. Ok if you're not, let me just take over with this money and get things done.
I'd say that was improperly conveyed and/or interpreted. Anyone that is willing to VOLUNTEER to help upgrade the site has ALWAYS and will ALWAYS (be)en welcome. As you know by now, we want them to take the reigns. That's the EB way. And, moreover, it would be their specialty. Similar to the way I handle the legal issues for the site. However, "sell it to me and I'll perform an upgrade" will NOT work. That's NOT the EB way. That's NOT volunteerism. That's PROFITEERING, plain and simple.


wha
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Codeblue
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:27 pm

Thanks for clearing dat that up.
RupertPupkin wrote:I live by this rule and this rule alone: people are drymounting idiots.
whalaw
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:57 pm

Codeblue wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:27 pm
Thanks for clearing dat that up.
You're welcome.

Enjoy your weekend(s).

wha
papaver
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:21 pm

to be clear, there is no tech "team". there is only me. many have volunteered and ended up doing squat. there were 5-7 initial members who were to "help" migrate this site from it's totally scary state a couple of years ago. no one else did anything. all i got were excuses. i've put in 100s of hours to get this site to where it is today. and that makes me want to make it better as i see so much potential wasted.

i brought up the idea of site upgrade with a couple members of the board some time last year. i figured with the site being stable again and things being mostly smooth it would be a topic worth exploring again. maybe if it was me doing the upgrade the community would be more open to it and be willing to contribute again since it would be by a member that was actively developing the site for the last year and hopefully built some trust and transparency in that time.

i proposed a 4-phased approach (all out re-write has failure written all over it). each phase would take around 3-4 months of full time development. yes, full time development. the codebase is massive. the feature set is extremely rich but the code is all over the place and needs a ton work. this kind of php development is just a no-no these days for any serious site. i give credit to the original authors for their achievement, there is a lot there.

in any case i offered up my professional services at an extreme discount. if the board was willing to raise money for each phase i would be willing to work on the site full time. i suggested doing both poster sales and potentially asking for donations again. after sometime it seems like the steam was gone and there wasn't really much movement.

so i offered to buy the site and keep the board on as is. having ownership would allow me to recoup the time invested to build the site back up over the long run. yes, the goal would be profit, i have to be able to feed myself and my family. ideally in several years i would be making the same yearly i make now. my intention was to keep the site as close to todays vibe as possible but add on services for people who wanted more, like api access, a market front for their collection, tighter ebay integration, etc etc.

the board declined. i wasn't really surprised, but happy to have an answer. a little later the board asked if i would put a bid down on the previous engineers plans. they were going to seek out a few. i politely declined. i don't do bids and i would be doing them a disservice trying to bid on something so massive. on top of that really getting a good idea of what is involved for a bid like that would take a week or two of full time work.

the truth is it's not just the tech holding the site back. there is a lack of leadership and vision. until someone has time to volunteer that on a constant and ongoing basis i don't see much changing around here.

regardless, i'm happy to keep the site up and stable. and to fix a bug here and there as time permits.
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ErocAfellar
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:30 pm

:fight:
HappaHaoli wrote:That is freaking Eroctic!
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Codeblue
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:44 pm

Thanks for clearing up the clear up. I can see both sides of the argument. Expecting a single person to fully upgrade this website based on some shady fuggers “specs” seems pretty unreasonable, especially on a volunteer basis. At the same time, I highly doubt this site can afford to pay you a full time web developer salary for over a year, even at a discount. Raising 30k was hard enough. I can only imagine what it would take to raise potentially over 100k. Then again EGT is an NFT mogul and could prolly fund the whole thing himself.
RupertPupkin wrote:I live by this rule and this rule alone: people are drymounting idiots.
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ygolohcysp
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Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:56 pm

I can also see the desire for the goal of the site to be to offer the services for free. That's all well and fine if you have plenty of free help on hand. Maybe the board members need to spend some more time on discord and reconnect with the youth. They're easily exploitable for this kind of stuff and very smart!
A public relations nightmare

SLAPPED WITH FLIPPING
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acidburn
Art Daddy
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:06 pm

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:24 am

i suggested doing both poster sales and potentially asking for donations again
I love this site. I actually prefer the simplicity of it all and yes mostly everyone has left the boards to goto FB but at the end of the day, I imagine as long as the site is running, everyone comes back to check pricing because it's the best database out there.

Till this day though I still don't understand how EB hasn't gotten into more online sales with poster releases. Doesn't even have to be for profit. Just to maintain the site. Even 2-3 "event" style prints would do wonders and most likely pay for whatever is necessary to keep this site going.
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Codeblue
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Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:21 pm

Luls. Have ya noticed they barely have the resources to keep the base functionality going? I'm sure they'd love it if ya decided to be the "fundraising czar" volunteer and created, promoted, and fulfilled a few releases for the site every year.
RupertPupkin wrote:I live by this rule and this rule alone: people are drymounting idiots.
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bubbie
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Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:59 am

whalaw wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:43 am
bubbie wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:52 am
Now that I am (probably) done posting for the day, it’s likely way more than 4%, lol.

HOW DO YOU GET FORUM ACTIVITY BACK? I stopped donating after I asked this question and it went unanswered previously. I did become more active in the database and adding ebay listings when I have time though.
That's the $64,000.00 question. The easy answer is to roll back the calendar 15 years before social media when Expressobeans.com was the only player on the block. Times have changed and it appears much of the discussion has moved to social media outlets.

So, do you have any ideas of "how to get forum activity back"?

wha
It was mentioned that eBay revenue is quite significant (in relative terms), which implies that there are buyers already using the site. In turn, this suggests that creating a market place for the small world of posters isn’t necessarily an idea of the past. Charge sellers a fee, but since profit isn’t the goal here, surely this place can be made more attractive than eBay for those trying to sell their posters. The market place should be indiscriminate between sellers; ie people in the hobby selling parts of their collections, collectors flipping stuff for a quick buck, or the new obey instaflippers/failippers pissing people off. It doesn’t matter who sells because it will be sold somewhere anyway, so might as well have it sold here and collect the fee.

Furthermore, make the EB points useful. The points and pins should be used to reduce or completely eliminate the selling fees and it should be advertised as such among sellers. Stootz (whatever happened to him?) would probably move the tons of stuff he has/had on eBay over here with quickness, given it actually works.

That doesn’t directly help the forum activity, but who knows. I mean if people would be here to sell, they may be looking over the forum, etc. Perhaps, the “excess” revenues can be used as some incentive for participation.

How do you attract sellers? I don’t know. Ygolocysp will spam discord and King of Nothing (is that his handle?) will send a word via his flipper kid to the funko crew.

Regardless, jokes aside, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

Where to get the money to build all that and market it? I don’t know.

One thing is for sure, things such as renewal fees should be put on auto-payment so that one will never have to see the “page not found” or whatever error it is that shows up once in a while.
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