America: The Trump Era

Civics, civilly. Post lifetime is 6 months.
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gorkie
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:19 am

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bubbie
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:32 am

BlakeAronson wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:13 pm
So meddling isn't meddling if you choose to inflame or incite things that may also happen to be true?
The short answer is no. Also, in the part I quoted, it says that they would simply “reprint something that appeared in Time Magazine” and “facts would themselves inflame international opinion”.

I am not sure if you read the article. I did and it is fudge and I really came to expect more from the Atlantic, so it was disappointing to see that. Also, I would give it more weight if it went along the lines of “During the Cold War, both the Russians and Americans similarly sought to plant fake news and foment discontent, but were limited by the low-tech methods available at the time.” and examples from both.

As for the posters, luls. The particular poster they referenced in the article is in Russian! Meddling? Luls.

How is this for a poster back from 18 hundreds?

Image

You can google and find a bunch of Cold War era American made posters, as well as posters from earlier periods. Check this out, for example:

Open Culture: The Red Menace: A Striking Gallery of Anti-Communist Posters, Ads, Comic Books, Magazines & Films

So like I said, the article is fudge, really. The funny thing is though, those racism and the like posters are still valid today. In the meantime, however, you guys are focused on the Russians meddling in your life. Just like you were focused on Russia for decades now. Just like Russia was focused on the United States for decades and is now. External enemies are always handy for those within.

Another example of bullshit is exiting the INF Treaty and blaming the Russians, then Bolton saying that the real reason is China developing and deploying the banned under the treaty missiles and then testing one not long after dropping out yourselves and saying that the missiles will be deployed in the early 20s. Right?

Or talking about Butina, while:

CNN: Exclusive: US extracted top spy from inside Russia in 2017
The source was considered the highest level source for the US inside the Kremlin, high up in the national security infrastructure, according to the source familiar with the matter and a former senior intelligence official.
According to CNN's sources, the spy had access to Putin and could even provide images of documents on the Russian leader's desk.
The covert source provided information for more than a decade, according to the sources, and an initial effort to extract the spy, after exposure concerns, was rebuffed by the informant.
Right?

Anyway, the article is fudge. Works for gorkies though.

P.S. Talking about Butina, why do they pronounce it the way they do? The accent is supposed to be on “u”, not “i”. Otherwise, they also need to say Poutine and not Putin (ha!). They ain’t French.
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bubbie
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:33 am

BlakeAronson wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:09 pm
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That’s pretty funny!
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misterx
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:37 am

finneganm wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:41 pm
I’d say 60/40 odds he gets re-elected at the moment.
You say a lot for someone often wrong about things....gutsy.


As for Judge Dabney L. Friedrich's ruling, seems youre struggling to understand ANY of it, let alone its meaning.

"That’s not all what Judge Friedrich concludes. This is a technical matter regarding whether or not the Mueller Report would prejudice a jury in regards to the IRA connection to the Russia Government.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-conte ... -order.pdf

Either you’re woefully behind the times, didn’t actually read it or, more likely, you’re just sticking to the narrative."


My favourite line of yours is that last one.

Lets keep those words in mind, shall we...



Heres what actually happened, contrary to your crazy gibberish...and it certainly isn't a technical matter as you call it... :D

Early 2018 Mueller indicted the infamous IRA troll farm, ran by a Russian oligarch, Yevgeny Prigozhin.
No chance of a trial obviously, because the Russians indicted weren't going to be extradited, right?

Well, to Muellers presumed horror, Prigozhin hired some American lawyers to defend itself.
This led to the Discovery process, where the defendants are allowed to see any and all evidence against it.

Did Mueller and his super smart lawyers not see that Russia could outsmart them by simply employing a few lawyers and seeking Discovery?!!
Clearly not !

Guess what they found??!!!

No evidence that the Russian government was involved with the Facebook clickbait posts !!

As a result, the judge ruled that Mueller’s assertion of Russian “sweeping and systematic” interference in the presidential election does not constitute proof of the charge....It is nothing but an unsubstantiated indictment based on an assertion by the special prosecutor.

An assertion is not evidence.


Go to Page 4 ( you sure you read the order??)
"...and ordered the government “to refrain from making or authorizing any public statement that links the alleged conspiracy in the indictment to the Russian government or its agencies.” May 28, 2019 Hr’g Tr. at 47–48. The Court further ordered that “any public statement about the allegations in the indictment . . . must make clear that, one, the government is summarizing the allegations in the indictment which remain unproven..."

So you have a Federal Judge telling Mueller and Co to stfu about things they have no evidence for.

And through no fault of your own, but the atrocious media we all have to endure these days, you didn't have a clue.

Youre even arguing I'm wrong...but YOU posted the link to the order yourself, which spells out what I am saying! :crazy:

Mueller was caught out in a lie and told to stop pretending he had evidence tying the Kremlin to any social media posts from IRA, because there was none.


Either you’re woefully behind the times, didn’t actually read it or, more likely, you’re just sticking to the narrative is perfect, thanks.


Gotta run. Bowling club toilets need cleaning....
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
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plaink
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:38 am

Make it snappier, eh? It’s not like Mueller is gonna personally correct you. No need to cover all your bases, which belong to you.
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BlakeAronson
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 am

bubbie wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:32 am
BlakeAronson wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:13 pm
So meddling isn't meddling if you choose to inflame or incite things that may also happen to be true?
The short answer is no.
Yikes. Alright then!
bubbie wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:32 am
Another example of bullshit is exiting the INF Treaty and blaming the Russians, then Bolton saying that the real reason is China developing and deploying the banned under the treaty missiles and then testing one not long after dropping out yourselves and saying that the missiles will be deployed in the early 20s. Right?
Come on now, you're starting to conflate and strawman like comradX. Do you really think the same people complaining about Russian meddling/interference are perfectly OK with the US abandoning an arms treaty? If so just go spend some time in a Fox news comment section and you'll soon realize the "nuke em all" crowd isn't the one complaining about Russians.
8=====D~~~~
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finneganm
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:11 am

misterx wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:37 am
Heres what actually happened, contrary to your crazy gibberish...and it certainly isn't a technical matter as you call it... :D

Early 2018 Mueller indicted the infamous IRA troll farm, ran by a Russian oligarch, Yevgeny Prigozhin.
No chance of a trial obviously, because the Russians indicted weren't going to be extradited, right?

Well, to Muellers presumed horror, Prigozhin hired some American lawyers to defend itself.
This led to the Discovery process, where the defendants are allowed to see any and all evidence against it.

Did Mueller and his super smart lawyers not see that Russia could outsmart them by simply employing a few lawyers and seeking Discovery?!!
Clearly not !

Guess what they found??!!!

No evidence that the Russian government was involved with the Facebook clickbait posts !!

As a result, the judge ruled that Mueller’s assertion of Russian “sweeping and systematic” interference in the presidential election does not constitute proof of the charge....It is nothing but an unsubstantiated indictment based on an assertion by the special prosecutor.

An assertion is not evidence.


Go to Page 4 ( you sure you read the order??)
"...and ordered the government “to refrain from making or authorizing any public statement that links the alleged conspiracy in the indictment to the Russian government or its agencies.” May 28, 2019 Hr’g Tr. at 47–48. The Court further ordered that “any public statement about the allegations in the indictment . . . must make clear that, one, the government is summarizing the allegations in the indictment which remain unproven..."

So you have a Federal Judge telling Mueller and Co to stfu about things they have no evidence for.

And through no fault of your own, but the atrocious media we all have to endure these days, you didn't have a clue.

Youre even arguing I'm wrong...but YOU posted the link to the order yourself, which spells out what I am saying! :crazy:

Mueller was caught out in a lie and told to stop pretending he had evidence tying the Kremlin to any social media posts from IRA, because there was none.


Either you’re woefully behind the times, didn’t actually read it or, more likely, you’re just sticking to the narrative is perfect, thanks.


Gotta run. Bowling club toilets need cleaning....
No. Close I guess, but still no. The *actual* trial of Conchord is happening next year. This, again, was a court order to stop potential prejudice in the relationship between Conchord and the Russian Government (and I can’t stress this enough) until the actual trial.

Looks like Conchord’s lawyers are shooting for April. Here you go:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ ... rm-1469336
...
...
That's what she said
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gorkie
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:26 am

Jesus Christ.
Hex is basically a one-man RT broadcast from a padded cell.
He’s actually worse than he ever was.
When he dies from sheer stupidity I really want to see “Zer ees no pwoof!” on his tombstone so the rest of the world can see and know what a nutjob the donkey in the ground actually was.

Derrrrrrrrpppppp!!...

Before inauguration, Trump had reportedly already seen evidence Putin personally ordered election interference

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... eport.html

President Donald Trump had seen highly classified evidence before his inauguration that Russian President Vladimir Putin had “personally ordered complex cyberattacks to sway the 2016 American election,” The New York Times reported on Wednesday.

And...

CIA source pulled from Russia had confirmed Putin ordered 2016 meddling: NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... 2016%3famp
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mtarail
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:30 am

BlakeAronson wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 am
Do you really think the same people complaining about Russian meddling/interference are perfectly OK with the US abandoning an arms treaty? If so just go spend some time in a Fox news comment section and you'll soon realize the "nuke em all" crowd isn't the one complaining about Russians.
That is a conflation, bubbie. There is very little, if any, overlap between those 2 groups in the U.S.
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jjttdw
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:04 am

bubbie wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:32 am
Or talking about Butina, while:

CNN: Exclusive: US extracted top spy from inside Russia in 2017
The source was considered the highest level source for the US inside the Kremlin, high up in the national security infrastructure, according to the source familiar with the matter and a former senior intelligence official.
According to CNN's sources, the spy had access to Putin and could even provide images of documents on the Russian leader's desk.
The covert source provided information for more than a decade, according to the sources, and an initial effort to extract the spy, after exposure concerns, was rebuffed by the informant.
Right?
Trying to figure out your point on this one. She is a spy who was infiltrating conservative groups, we had a spy in Russia we got out. It is certainly a point for discussion if you don't think she was a spy.
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gorkie
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:17 am

#prettycagedsparrow
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dero316
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:49 am

An NBC News correspondent went to the man’s house in the Washington area and rang the doorbell. Five minutes later, two young men in an SUV came racing up the street and parked immediately adjacent to the correspondent’s car.

The men, who identified themselves only as friends of the Russian, asked the correspondent what he was doing there.

A former senior national security official said the men were likely U.S. government agents monitoring the Russian's house.

The Russian will likely be moved from the place he is currently living in the interest of keeping him safe, current and former officials said.



Wishing him success with his new identity!

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gorkie
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 am

He. Vill. Get. Zee. Poyzin!!!!!!!!!
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. - Thoreau
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jjttdw
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:33 am

dero316 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:49 am
An NBC News correspondent went to the man’s house in the Washington area and rang the doorbell. Five minutes later, two young men in an SUV came racing up the street and parked immediately adjacent to the correspondent’s car.

The men, who identified themselves only as friends of the Russian, asked the correspondent what he was doing there.

A former senior national security official said the men were likely U.S. government agents monitoring the Russian's house.

The Russian will likely be moved from the place he is currently living in the interest of keeping him safe, current and former officials said.


Wishing him success with his new identity!
I heard that little bit of news...

Friends of the Russian: What are you doing here:

Correspondent: Wondering how you can be so bad at hiding someone who is obviously a target.
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finneganm
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:01 pm

Bolton gone... that’s good news for the world.
...
...
That's what she said
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