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Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:15 am
by SPAC04
1st season True Detective is flawless, I dug "the leftovers" through and through as well, tho i am most partial to season 1. HBO crushes.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:54 am
by pjsteelerfan
I'd rather them leave this as a limited series. I don't think there is any way they can top this season. Just go out on top.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:00 am
by Thinker
SO does everyone understand what exactly happened between Doctor M and older hooded justice? What the deal they made was? I know that HJ got his revenge on cyclops but what did Dr. M get? Killing lady Trieu and saving the world? How exactly did Old HJ deliver on that in any way that Dr. M couldn't do himself? Why did Dr. M have to forget who he was for awhile?

WHile I enjoyed the show I feel like it left some loose ends writing/story-wise or maybe it's just me? Someone enlighten me.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:37 am
by jkw3000
Thinker wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:00 am
SO does everyone understand what exactly happened between Doctor M and older hooded justice? What the deal they made was? I know that HJ got his revenge on cyclops but what did Dr. M get? Killing lady Trieu and saving the world? How exactly did Old HJ deliver on that in any way that Dr. M couldn't do himself? Why did Dr. M have to forget who he was for awhile?

WHile I enjoyed the show I feel like it left some loose ends writing/story-wise or maybe it's just me? Someone enlighten me.
Hooded Justice explained it to Angela - Dr. M did what he did, knowing it'd lead to his death, but in doing so he could give Angela and Will closure by bringing them together. His confrontation with HJ in ep 8 was all about him caring about Angela enough to know she is profoundly lonely and desperate for reconnection with her family, given they were all in one way or another taken from her. That kind of closure isn't something his powers can grant her. Assumedly the alternatives - like Dr. M and Angela running away - would not prevent the eventuality that somebody's gonna be after him and his powers. As for needing to forget who he was, it's a running thing that his perception of time just makes it difficult for him to be with anybody - was true in the comic, true on the show - and the only way he can "risk" anything and put himself on equal footing with somebody he wants to be with is to disable it.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:04 pm
by finneganm
pjsteelerfan wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:54 am
I'd rather them leave this as a limited series. I don't think there is any way they can top this season. Just go out on top.
Agreed.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:09 pm
by jkw3000
finneganm wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:04 pm
pjsteelerfan wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:54 am
I'd rather them leave this as a limited series. I don't think there is any way they can top this season. Just go out on top.
Agreed.
At the very least it feels complete in telling its story, starting with the Tulsa massacre and ending with resolution to its wounds on Will. Beyond going out on top, there's just not much of a natural continuation - even that last shot feels better as ambiguous than being answered.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:12 pm
by finneganm
*Maybe* a Downton Abbey/Faulty Towers mashup that takes place on Europa.

I’d watch a two hour special.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:36 pm
by BENYOUNG20
Season 2 for me: Follow Night Owl II. Start with him in prison. Maybe Laurie has to get him out to track down either a former partner or foe. But similar from going from seasons 1 to 2 of leftovers I would go with a whole new setting with minimal crossover of characters.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:07 pm
by Thinker
jkw3000 wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:37 am
Thinker wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:00 am
SO does everyone understand what exactly happened between Doctor M and older hooded justice? What the deal they made was? I know that HJ got his revenge on cyclops but what did Dr. M get? Killing lady Trieu and saving the world? How exactly did Old HJ deliver on that in any way that Dr. M couldn't do himself? Why did Dr. M have to forget who he was for awhile?

WHile I enjoyed the show I feel like it left some loose ends writing/story-wise or maybe it's just me? Someone enlighten me.
Hooded Justice explained it to Angela - Dr. M did what he did, knowing it'd lead to his death, but in doing so he could give Angela and Will closure by bringing them together. His confrontation with HJ in ep 8 was all about him caring about Angela enough to know she is profoundly lonely and desperate for reconnection with her family, given they were all in one way or another taken from her. That kind of closure isn't something his powers can grant her. Assumedly the alternatives - like Dr. M and Angela running away - would not prevent the eventuality that somebody's gonna be after him and his powers. As for needing to forget who he was, it's a running thing that his perception of time just makes it difficult for him to be with anybody - was true in the comic, true on the show - and the only way he can "risk" anything and put himself on equal footing with somebody he wants to be with is to disable it.
Thanks for the explanation.

I don't know. I hate when stories use the whole "need for closure" thing as a plot device, I don't really buy it. He had to die so that Angela has closure? He is a literal GOD he couldn't think of another way?

Wish they would have come up with a better, more believable reason for such a sacrifice? The source material did a great job at creating this big moral dilemma / sacrifice for the greater good. This time around, the goal of the protagonist is just kind of weak.

By the way what happened to the whole "Putting myself back together was the first Trick I learned?" thing and the "World's smartest man means no more to me than it's smartest cockroach" or however it goes?

I did like the show as a Watchmen fanboy but as far as TV goes, just not really great writing. Although, I imagine it is a hard thing to write when you have a character that has been established of all knowing and all powerful.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:26 pm
by jkw3000
He didn't have to die for the sole purpose of her closure, as much as there's no situation in which he can stay in her life without it being a mess of people gunning after his powers. So if he's going out, he can go out in a way that leads Angela and Will together. Last episode established that Trieu was working on a way to steal his powers before he even met Angela - the satellite being used to just confirm he's on Europa so she can plan.

As for any inconsistencies, between the establishment of an achilles heel (tachyons) in the comics to him giving himself a 10 year blindspot to be with Angela, they tried to bring him as down to earth as they could for a big blue glowing god. I mean, this was also an all-knowing being who may be giving Veidt flack about how beneath him he is, but even Manhattan does not fully see the extent of Veidt's plan in the comics (it's why he has to ask him if he has another secret weapon when Veidt grabs the remote) and here there are multiple people trying to find ways around his blindspots.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:26 pm
by Codeblue
There's def gonna be a season 2. Too much money on the table.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:34 pm
by BENYOUNG20
Thinker wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:07 pm

I don't know. I hate when stories use the whole "need for closure" thing as a plot device, I don't really buy it. He had to die so that Angela has closure? He is a literal GOD he couldn't think of another way?
I think the thing a lot of people don't understand about Doctor M is he doesn't think of a way to fix things....he sees all times and knows what is going to happen. But what happens happens, he can't change them. God like powers....but they have limits.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:40 pm
by Cinlabyrinth
The Watchmen podcast goes a lot into that, and it answers a ton of those questions straight from the source (Damon). I found all of his reasons, responses, and descriptions to be useful and explain a lot more than I had even considered.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:28 pm
by MooseThompson
On the topic of him letting himself be killed, I agree that he knew he would never be able to stop people from coming for his powers. Plus, Will got in his head that he didn't use them to the level he should have. So, he passes them to Angela hoping that she will properly use them but people won't actually know she's Dr. M.

Angela gave him back some of his humanity. 10 years of a loving, normal-ish life was the trade off for him.

Re: Watchmen on HBO

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:44 pm
by fredo
Codeblue wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:36 pm
Good fudge. Just hope they know where they're going with it.
Is about where I'm at now. 3 eps in.