STOUT "LOST" Destroyed, Seller Refuses Refund

[PLUSH]

I've been going through the insurance process with a member on here for the last 6 months. He's been really good about it but Canada Post is taking their time sorting the claim out. In this case, I have the damaged print currently and he has my payment still. I'm hoping that when the claim goes through I'll get my costs back. I don't think I'd be happy hanging this damaged print anyway so it's not too important who has it to me.

see, this is all dumb ass fudge.

1) don't pay w/ gifts, it's not his birthday.

2) insurance issues or lack of insurance issues are the seller's problem, not the buyer's.

3) When dealing w/ insurance claims, the seller should refund the buyer after the claim is initiated.....at this point it's completely out of the buyers hands. If and when the seller gets his money back should be on the seller's time/wallet, not the buyer's.

Where's the print in all of this, is it back at the seller or does the buyer still have it? Having been a buyer that received a print that was not 'mint' as described, it was I either sent the print back to the seller, waited for him to receive it (then get my money back, as the process should work) or work out something between the two of us. Just because a buyer says hey my print is drymounted, until the seller has that print back in hand, I feel they are under no obligation to give any money back.

[sidewaysscott]

Has the seller been in-contact since this thread?

[wneff]

Seller is always responsible for assuring the print arrives save.

And where is that codified into Law? If this were the case without exception, we would have scumbucket buyers attempting to screw sellers constantly. Any transaction is a verbal (or written) contract between buyer and seller. I don't care if the transacted item is a poster or a Lamborghini. The optimal circumstance in a transaction is when both parties feel responsible for protecting the interests of both parties. This is how good business is done. That is, if anyone still remembers what good business practices look like.

If you want fight for the right to "wing it", have at it. However, don't be surprised when you end up getting hosed.

[gonesolo]

Honestly...how much is insurance? $2?? Even if the buyer doesn't specify wanting it, I always do it.

[wizdom]

As a seller, I always make sure the package is insured on high value items. It's just common sense. Gift payments are something else all together, to trusted member only but it is risky no matter how you look at it.
To OP, if the situation doesn't resolve and you're stuck with the print, just drymount the sucker and frame it up. Not an ultimate happy ending but at least you will be able to enjoy the art.

[alteridiom]

Threads like this should never occur because the resources are out there to avoid these situations.

[twitch1977]

Seller is always responsible for assuring the print arrives save.

And where is that codified into Law?

I get what you're saying in your post, but I think the point is that after the buyer pays the seller he is helpless when it comes to insuring that the print arrives safely. He has no control over that. It's up to the seller to pack the print properly and have it insured, there's nothing the buyer can do.

[DickButt]

Honestly...how much is insurance? $2?? Even if the buyer doesn't specify wanting it, I always do it.

Me too. As a seller it's just common sense for me so I'm protected if something ever happens. It's a no-brainer (at least I thought it was).

[halftonegraphics]

Seller is always responsible for assuring the print arrives save.

And where is that codified into Law? If this were the case without exception, we would have scumbucket buyers attempting to screw sellers constantly. Any transaction is a verbal (or written) contract between buyer and seller. I don't care if the transacted item is a poster or a Lamborghini. The optimal circumstance in a transaction is when both parties feel responsible for protecting the interests of both parties. This is how good business is done. That is, if anyone still remembers what good business practices look like.

If you want fight for the right to "wing it", have at it. However, don't be surprised when you end up getting hosed.

Everyone has their own practices and preaches what they will. I was simply stating my opinion.

A seller sells an item. In order for a seller to sell an item they must first describe or show that item. In order to sell that item, a seller then needs to find a buyer. The buyer buys the item based on the said description or presented state of that item. (In your words, a verbal/written agreement). If said item is not in said state when received, then said buyer has right to void or break said contract.

Last time I checked, the seller is the one selling said item and also packaging said item. The buyer is not. Therefore, said seller is responsible for packaging and safely shipping said item.

$.02.

[chisoxfan2424]

Wow just read this thread. That sucks. Hope you get sorted out.

[jojobadass]

If I buy something using paypal in the aftermarket or on eb.......I always put the words "w/ insurance" in the paypal notes.

[jojobadass]

and most of the time I put "mint condition" as well.

it just covers all the bases.......you know, just in case.

[electrachrome]

For those that HAVE received a damaged print with insurance, what happens? I purchased one print before that arrived destroyed and the seller wanted me to send it back and he was going to fill a claim. It seemed like he was going to get to keep the damaged poster AND get a nice payout from the insurance.

I have had ONE case where I had to return the print to the US post office and handle the paper work. The seller (the poster artist) forwarded the documents requested by the post office regarding value. They purchased the insurance & printed their own shipping label online, but it's not clearly indicated on the label, so I needed a printout of their bill/receipt from USPS online. I was only reimbursed for the cost of the print, not the shipping costs. The post office kept the print.

On 2 other occasions I received damaged tubes and the seller just refunded the money and i kept the damaged prints (one had to be escalated to a PayPal claim before this happened)

As a seller, I have had 1 tube get crushed in transit that was uninsured. Like above, I just refunded the full payment to the buyer.
I used to "self insure" (ie: not buy insurance) for prints under $50. After I had to pay out of pocket once, I now insure everything over $25.

I believe it is the sellers responsibility to cover any loss or damage that happens on the way to the buyer. The buyer is purchasing goods as advertised. They are not buying the chance to receive those goods as advertised. it's pretty simple. if you sell, insure it or pay out of pocket if it gets messed up.

[s_k_y]

Sellers who request that money be sent as a gift should have their threads locked/deleted.

This should be implemented as a rule...if not, anyone who disagrees should be inclined to post that in whatever FS thread they see.

[halftonegraphics]

For those that HAVE received a damaged print with insurance, what happens? I purchased one print before that arrived destroyed and the seller wanted me to send it back and he was going to fill a claim. It seemed like he was going to get to keep the damaged poster AND get a nice payout from the insurance.

I have had ONE case where I had to return the print to the US post office and handle the paper work. The seller (the poster artist) forwarded the documents requested by the post office regarding value. They purchased the insurance & printed their own shipping label online, but it's not clearly indicated on the label, so I needed a printout of their bill/receipt from USPS online. I was only reimbursed for the cost of the print, not the shipping costs. The post office kept the print.

On 2 other occasions I received damaged tubes and the seller just refunded the money and i kept the damaged prints (one had to be escalated to a PayPal claim before this happened)

As a seller, I have had 1 tube get crushed in transit that was uninsured. Like above, I just refunded the full payment to the buyer.
I used to "self insure" (ie: not buy insurance) for prints under $50. After I had to pay out of pocket once, I now insure everything over $25.

I believe it is the sellers responsibility to cover any loss or damage that happens on the way to the buyer. The buyer is purchasing goods as advertised. They are not buying the chance to receive those goods as advertised. it's pretty simple. if you sell, insure it or pay out of pocket if it gets messed up.

In the same boat. I have only had one print damaged in shipping and the only thing that would have possibly saved it would have been a PVC or metal tube. Just say, it was flattened in the tube..

As for insurance claims, I always have the buyer return the item at my expense. I either print a label for them and send them the PDF or reimburse them for the return shipping. Once received, I refund in full and handle the insurance claim on my time.

That being said, I have only had one insurance claim on prints, the above mentioned print. And the buyer actually settled it, since it was an international shipment.

All other claims have mainly been neon signs and other miscellaneous items.