To linen back, or not to linen back? That is the question.

General art-related discussion.
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Raheen_Shabbazz
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:38 pm

I'm trying to figure out how to frame a Griffin OG.
http://www.expressobeans.com/public/detail.php/100377

The paper it is on is pretty thin and I'm not sure it would really frame up all that well as it is. I was considering getting it linen backed to preserve it and give it a bit more weight. Has anyone had one of their prints backed? Have you purchased a backed print? Do you have any strong feelings one way or the other?

I'm not even sure it's going to be possible to back this piece given the paper type.

Opinions are welcome!
Tadrules
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:42 pm

hellz no. only if you're trying to repair something would you want to go that route. esp something as beautiful and precious as what you have there. take it to the best framer you know, explain your concerns, and have them school you on your options.
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Tapecat
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:42 pm

sleeve it then frame it
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Raheen_Shabbazz
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:47 pm

>> hellz no.

HA! Glad I asked! I mainly do all my own framing, but it's all pretty basic stuff thus far -- easy peasy posters and OGs. I've never really framed something this thin. And, honestly, I don't trust ANY framers. I've been burned waaaay too many times in the past. That's why I started framing my own stuff.

But, please rest assured that I wouldn't do ANYTHING drastic with this one (like back it) without significant research. And this post is the beginning of said research. :D

TC, what do you mean by "sleeve" it?
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Tapecat
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:51 pm

The dead clear mylars...get one slightly lager than the piece. then mat out the edges.

Once you add the glass you'll hardly notice it.
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Tadrules
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:55 pm

I don't trust ANY framers.
:!: :D
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geezer
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:10 pm

Go with Tapecat's suggestion. Linen or rice paper backed would be unnecessary and expensive unless the piece is in funky condition.
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nc312
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:04 pm

I have a similar question: I have a drymounted coyne fromm the mid 90's. Is this a candidate for linen backing?
rka00
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:52 pm

Tapecat wrote:The dead clear mylars...get one slightly lager than the piece. then mat out the edges.

Once you add the glass you'll hardly notice it.

Great idea, never thought of that. Thanks Tapecat and thanks Raheen_Shabbazz for the post (btw, awesome og).
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haven
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:24 pm

nc312 wrote:I have a similar question: I have a drymounted coyne fromm the mid 90's. Is this a candidate for linen backing?
Negative. Whatever it's drymounted to is now its backing.
Tadrules
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:25 pm

nc312 wrote:I have a similar question: I have a drymounted coyne fromm the mid 90's. Is this a candidate for linen backing?
is it drymounted? or f*cked up?
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dirkstainly
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:59 pm

Linen backing, if done correctly, is a fully archival and completely reversible process. There are some posters which NEED to be linen backed, such as the vintage advertising posters from the 1890s-1930s. They were originally intended to be pasted on walls and were on extremely thin paper. They weren't intended to last all that long, so the quality of the paper wasn't exactly archival either. To preserve them, most are linen backed.

It makes the posters able to be transported and allows the folds to be burnished out. Among most collectors of vintage (1900s, not 1960s) posters, linen backing is preferable also because of the size of the prints...take a print 30 x 50 and stick that in a frame--even with a mat it will sag terribly. Spacers won't hold it in place either.

For modern prints, it isn't necessary because the papers are much, much heavier than the paper used for advertising prints 100 years ago. I do have a modern poster I had linen backed to close a big rip in it caused by the drymounting asswipes at UPS. In a frame, there's no way to tell it's linen backed and I love the image, so it was worth it.

Most people don't know what the process of linen backing is and so they figure it's "drymounted" (in both the literal sense and in the EB euphemistic sense). It's not.

In this particular situation, I like tapecat's suggestion too. If it's a relatively small piece, linen backing wouldn't be needed if you go the mylar sleeve method.
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Rick_a_c
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Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:22 pm

Thanks, dirk, for the insight. If linen backings make sense for those 100 year old thin paper posters, it also probably makes sense for the huge Gunther Kieser thin-ass paper posters from Germany from the late 60's/early 70's.

Also, to your point about linen backing "fixing" or masking rips, the only thing I ever heard over the years about linen backing was that it removed fold lines in posters that came in record albums (e.g., famously this seemed to apply to the Bob Dylan Milton Glaser poster), and 1-sheet movie posters which were typically folded into 4x2=8 rectangular sections.

From time to time, I think about backing my 1-sheet poster for the film on the Fillmore Closing Week. But my preliminary inquiries led me to believe it would cost at minimum $100 to linen-back the poster. Since I don't know anyone who has done this, I'm reluctant to throw away $100+ in case it doesn't come out like I want it. So, it continues to sit, folded indefinitely.
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dirkstainly
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Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:27 am

Depending on how big the Kieser posters are, you may be looking at $200-$300 bucks. The cost is usually based on size. The one I had linen backed is 20x28 and it set me back $200 but it had some tears to deal with which an intact Kieser wouldn't.

As long as the paper is intact, I don't know that I would have it done with the Kieser posters. Many of the 100 year old posters are now very brittle. It's likely that the old paper is acidic as well. It was really only intended to last a few weeks pasted to a wall.

I've often seen that the Glaser Dylan linen mounted for exactly the reason you stated--it allows the folds to be burnished out. The same would work for your closing of the Fillmore poster. Whether it's worth the cost is up to each individual.

What I see often in the old prints is that cracks develop in the paper at the folds because the paper gets brittle over time. Granted, those are 100 year old prints, not early 70s and the paper is different. Plus who knows how the old ones were stored--might have been in some musty basement, or next to a furnace or in an attic or something.
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talkingdeads
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Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:32 am

nc312 wrote:I have a similar question: I have a drymounted coyne fromm the mid 90's. Is this a candidate for linen backing?
you live in san fran right? i forget, but there is someone in portland or U of W that invented a chipping technique for paper preservation to remove drymounted material from a print. it might be pricey.
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