The Tim Doyle/ Nakatomi Art Thread

[iwokeinrelief]

Jesus Christ, he would have sold enough mystery tubes with or without them. Because nobody knew they were in there. Because it's a drymounting mystery. They were not a contributing factor in his profit from the tubes. At all,

Well it's somewhere between probable and likely that he included them to pad out a number of tubes that he would not have been able to sell without including those prints. So it's arguable that the extra tubes do constitute him profiting off of these. Assuming the tubes could be reshuffled to allocate all prints (excluding the commission) it wouldn't be a 1:1 thing, but some additional tubes could be sold just by including these in the mix.

[Navinabob]

Here is the exchange:

[finneganm]

I'd love to see some pics of these misprints

I mean not really, but drymount it.

[RiotAct]

Damn, I got into the wrong line of business out of college.

[fredo]

[TheBeard]

Ok that exchange is pretty civil of Tim, even being the one to offer the refund.

The way the story was presented was Tim was being a complete dick about the whole thing.

[OtomoChaser]

I'd love to see some pics of these misprints

I mean not really, but drymount it.

*chopped mystery tube edition* - Picture quality isn't the best.....and I have no idea how the post-refund reprint looks/will look so can't comment as to problems/discrepancies between the two.

Nor am I picking a 'side' - just sharing the image, because drymount it.

[zefarrett]

Ok that exchange is pretty civil of Tim, even being the one to offer the refund.

The way the story was presented was Tim was being a complete dick about the whole thing.

This round goes to Doyle.

[TheBeard]

My group recently hired Tim Doyle to print an Avengers commission, art by Alexander Iaccarino. Tim rushed our job and screwed all the prints up and demanded we pay for them. After going back and forth Tim agreed to refund our money and cut the prints and use them as test prints (printing over them). Instead Tim took the art that wasn't his and cut them down to 18x24 and sold them in his tube sale. If anyone is thinking about hiring Tim beware your art may show up in poster tube sales.

The way the emails tell the story, you guys actually agreed to take the refund that he offered.

[MoviePosterEmpire]

Throwing a shitty print in with a bunch of other shitty prints in a mystery tube is far from him profiting off of it. It's far closer to him cleaning out his flat file.

Authorized/unauthorized/shitty/not-shitty. If you're stuck with a lot of prints that you can't/will not sell directly for whatever reason, a mystery tube Iran easy way to get rid of paper fast.

Did he advertise the tube as containing four S&D prints? Yes. Did he sell the tube based on the fact that people would be getting prints? Yes. Did he take people's money in exchange for the goods? Yes. That means that he profited from the mystery tube. It doesn't matter what is in it, he is profiting on any print that he puts in there. The only way he doesn't profit off it is if he was giving them away for free, which he didn't. If you're going to clean out your flat file and you don't have the right to sell the print, you throw it way or actually recycle the paper. Just because you have it sitting around, doesn't give you the right to sell it. That's why second hand stores have to account for anything that they acquire. Doyle didn't acquire it with the permission to sell so he doesn't have the right to sell.

Correct me if i'm wrong but any printer who prints a commissioned print is essentially printing out an unlicensed image because I doubt all these commissioned groups are obtaining rights and likeness.

This is exactly correct. Movieposterempire is an accomplice at the minimum, doing the very same thing he's accusing someone else of doing: stealing.

You can't have your cake and eat it too! Accusing someone else of theft sure opens up a can of worms when you're doing it as well.

I have no financial stake in this issue. I didn't commission the print, I didn't buy in on the print, I didn't buy a print on the secondary market, I didn't buy a Nakatomi mystery tube.

Meh. I bet the way the original story is told is SLIGHTLY biased. Sounds like they weren't happy with the print and were refunded. Well who compensates Tim for his time?

is it ridiculous to suggest that he takes the loss since he didn't satisfy the customer?

EXACTLY! If a printing company is hired by McDonalds and they have a mis-print on 10,000 cups, it's not on McDonalds to cover the re-printing and the printer doesn't have the right to sell cups with images they don't own.

Jesus Christ, he would have sold enough mystery tubes with or without them. Because nobody knew they were in there. Because it's a drymounting mystery. They were not a contributing factor in his profit from the tubes. At all,

Again, doesn't matter if he made profit or not. The fact that he included them is what makes it unethical and illegal.

Well, technically you told him he could "cut them for scrap" and "use them as test-sheets" and he gave you a refund. You gave no instructions on how he was supposed to do anything with them once they were mutilated. It's like giving a homeless person money for food and getting pissed off when he buys cigarettes. You had your chance to be specific with how they were to be disposed, but you left it entirely to Tim. You had days to provide some sort of direction or stipulation, but gave none. You were only concerned with the refund. You wanna be pissed at someone, be pissed at yourself.

But then again he didn't cut them for scrap or use them for test sheets. He cut them and then sold them as scratch & dent posters as a new product.

[finneganm]

I'd love to see some pics of these misprints

I mean not really, but drymount it.

*chopped mystery tube edition* - I have no idea how the post-refund reprint looks, so can't comment as to problems/discrepancies between the two.

Just took down my 900 dollar ISO listing for the official version. This. This will fulfill my odd desire to hang a so-so drawing of actors who represent top notch drawings.

[alexfugazi]

There's a bit I cut out of here.
Essentially, he said he wasn't happy w/ the variants either, I said they were acceptable, their group offered to take them for a tiny discount, and I said to myself- why give someone prints they don't really want, better to just refund and be done with it. Thought I was doing the right thing.

I did not want this to be public, but that was taken out of my hands, and I had to defend myself.

Now, I expect apologies from everyone who jumped to conclusions about me.

(ahahahahahah. ha. ha ha. That will never happen.)

Here is the exchange:

[matowest]

Just took down my 900 dollar ISO listing for the official version. This. This will fulfill my odd desire to hang a so-so drawing of actors who represent top notch drawings.

POTD

[FROBAY]

There's a bit I cut out of here.
Essentially, he said he wasn't happy w/ the variants either, I said they were acceptable, their group offered to take them for a tiny discount, and I said to myself- why give someone prints they don't really want, better to just refund and be done with it. Thought I was doing the right thing.

I did not want this to be public, but that was taken out of my hands, and I had to defend myself.

Now, I expect apologies from everyone who jumped to conclusions about me.

(ahahahahahah. ha. ha ha. That will never happen.)

Here is the exchange:

You cut this part out....and some others and rearranged them. Nice!!


The variants are horrible. The whole thing is misaligned. The eyebrows on black widow, the eye on her. The whit around iron man. I can't believe your trying to pawn these off on me. Alex saw these in person and they were all bad. You agreed to do a full job and giving me half is unacceptable. I'll need a full refund. I have your previous email admitting issues, and pics as well as a statement from Alex that you would give us a refund. You rushed our job to play catchup with a bigger print job. Alex, saw your machine printing ours on automatic to rush it out. I understand that Alex screens had a few issues but the misalignment and humidity is all on you.

You have failed in our print agreement and a refund is what I'm after.

Thanks
Faris

Don't forget this one:

Hey Faris-
With the Variants done and the printing having gone well, I can't refund those. I can give those over to Alexander and he can sign and number for shipping to you in Houston- The regulars would either have to be reprinted or just not done by me at this point.
Let me know-
Tim D.

[MoviePosterEmpire]

There's a bit I cut out of here.
Essentially, he said he wasn't happy w/ the variants either, I said they were acceptable, their group offered to take them for a tiny discount, and I said to myself- why give someone prints they don't really want, better to just refund and be done with it. Thought I was doing the right thing.

I did not want this to be public, but that was taken out of my hands, and I had to defend myself.

Now, I expect apologies from everyone who jumped to conclusions about me.

(ahahahahahah. ha. ha ha. That will never happen.)

Here is the exchange:

So he wasn't happy with the quality of the printing. You told them that they were good enough. They agreed to take them but not pay full price for printing because the quality wasn't what they were promised. You decided to give a full refund and then profit off what was printed.

Seems like you made the decision to cut up someone else's work and sell it as a print you don't have the rights to rather than take less money for doing a bad job.