Marketing vs Art

General art-related discussion.
AdrinBig
Art Enthusiast
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:35 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:39 am

Closed home in 2020 I decided to start a collection. After some thought and research, I decided that prints are perfect for me. Beautiful, easy to store, affordable price, retain or increase value over time…

Now, I am trying to understand what gives a print value - visit EB every day! - when I noticed that we could divide prints in two big groups:
• 2 min SOLD OUT prints
• prints that sell very slowly

For my understanding - please correct me if I’m wrong – the difference between the two groups it’s not really about the print representation, style or technique but much more about the market expected value. No matter what Shepard Fairey does but many people will buy his prints just to flip it for more money. In other words, for many buyers, it is an investment not something to frame.

Of course, for myself and many other collectors, I guess it’s both, but I wonder… is it more marketing or artist skills?

If I would produce prints that are mediocre but I could guarantee they are a particularly good investment and tomorrow will value much more because of the extremely limited number + with a strong marketing investment people would start collecting them. Would collectors buy them even if they are nothing special?

Happy new year!
User avatar
ygolohcysp
Art Expert
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:57 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:46 am

Yes. Market away, we'll see if it works. I support your venture in spirit, probably not financially though.
A public relations nightmare

SLAPPED WITH FLIPPING
User avatar
maddog76
Flipper
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:00 am

Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:00 pm

AdrinBig wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:39 am
If I would produce prints that are mediocre but I could guarantee they are a particularly good investment and tomorrow will value much more because of the extremely limited number + with a strong marketing investment people would start collecting them. Would collectors buy them even if they are nothing special?

Happy new year!
How would you guarantee they were a good investment if they were dog fudge prints?

This is the element you are missing.

Step 1: low run prints from new artist or artist not popular. Take Mike Mitchell for instance. Those first JLU prints through 1988 sat for months. Some had tiny runs of like 25 each.
Step 2: artists gets some hype, starts producing in mass quantity to appease demand. Take Mike Mitchell for instance, JLU gets hype, runs into 500+
Step 3: early prints explode in price. Take Mike Mitchell, those early JLU are $1k+ now.
User avatar
ygolohcysp
Art Expert
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:57 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:43 pm

"my kid could make that"

-you (2020)
A public relations nightmare

SLAPPED WITH FLIPPING
bsharp
Art Connoisseur
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:54 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:11 pm

AdrinBig wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:39 am
If I would produce prints that are mediocre but I could guarantee they are a particularly good investment and tomorrow will value much more because of the extremely limited number + with a strong marketing investment people would start collecting them.
That’s just it. If you could do that you would have found the missing ingredient and just be considered a successful artist.

If I could just buy stocks low and sell them higher I would always make easy money. Picking which ones is just an unimportant implementation detail.
AdrinBig
Art Enthusiast
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:35 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:28 pm

maddog76 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:00 pm
How would you guarantee they were a good investment if they were dog fudge prints?

This is the element you are missing.

Step 1: low run prints from new artist or artist not popular. Take Mike Mitchell for instance. Those first JLU prints through 1988 sat for months. Some had tiny runs of like 25 each.
Step 2: artists gets some hype, starts producing in mass quantity to appease demand. Take Mike Mitchell for instance, JLU gets hype, runs into 500+
Step 3: early prints explode in price. Take Mike Mitchell, those early JLU are $1k+ now.
I don't have all the answers, it's more a theory. From an investment point of view I think the only important fact is that I would need more demand then offer. I think Mike Mitchell is a good example but run +500 is a big mistake in my opinion. As a collector I love things that are very rare not hundreds. I was thinking to link the number of print to the number of people (for example not more than one every 200mil people on the planet) so to slowly increase the size but in a very controlled way.

I think two other important factors are price and steadiness. Let's say it's dog fudge but for the first run of 39 (7.800 mil people right now on the planet) I will start asking just 1$. I'm unknown but I will promise that I will keep publish new prints every month till I die. I mean, wouldn't you invest 1$? I think even if it's dog fudge would be a great investment. What else am I missing?
AdrinBig
Art Enthusiast
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:35 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:29 pm

ygolohcysp wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:43 pm
"my kid could make that"

-you (2020)
:D Yes, I guess you are right!
bsharp
Art Connoisseur
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:54 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:40 pm

AdrinBig wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:28 pm
I think two other important factors are price and steadiness. Let's say it's dog fudge but for the first run of 39 (7.800 mil people right now on the planet) I will start asking just 1$. I'm unknown but I will promise that I will keep publish new prints every month till I die. I mean, wouldn't you invest 1$? I think even if it's dog fudge would be a great investment. What else am I missing?
There are some prints I wouldn't even pay just the shipping for. And prints cost money to make. I don't think you could sell a print for $1 unless your goal was to light money on fire.
User avatar
jjttdw
Art Expert
Posts: 7159
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:45 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:22 pm

If you want to invest $1 per print until said artist dies, you will left with a stack of $1 prints in most instances. Buy what you like and you will never be disappointed. I've got a bunch of Ben Kehoe paintings on my wall. I doubt they will ever be worth more than I paid but I like then.

Collecting anything successfully requires in depth knowledge of what you are collecting. In the print world that means artist and image. Sometimes larger editions are worth more than the smaller ones. Fairey's S/N offset for Hope is an edition of 600 and is worth more than a lot of the rare 90s images.
NEWPORTS69 wrote:ive kept journal for very long time and ranked public restrooms because i srs hate using them, was working on an app but im not very smart
AdrinBig
Art Enthusiast
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:35 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:37 pm

bsharp wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:40 pm

There are some prints I wouldn't even pay just the shipping for. And prints cost money to make. I don't think you could sell a print for $1 unless your goal was to light money on fire.
Of course not in the long run but I think in the beginning I could see it as a marketing investment. To be honest if I would ever do this project my goal would not be to make money, would be to create a collectable and to prove a point...
AdrinBig
Art Enthusiast
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:35 pm

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:50 pm

jjttdw wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:22 pm
If you want to invest $1 per print until said artist dies, you will left with a stack of $1 prints in most instances. Buy what you like and you will never be disappointed. I've got a bunch of Ben Kehoe paintings on my wall. I doubt they will ever be worth more than I paid but I like then.

Collecting anything successfully requires in depth knowledge of what you are collecting. In the print world that means artist and image. Sometimes larger editions are worth more than the smaller ones. Fairey's S/N offset for Hope is an edition of 600 and is worth more than a lot of the rare 90s images.
Yes, for my personal collection I just buy what I like (still I would like to increase in value over time). I'm quite proud of my last two pieces:
https://expressobeans.com/public/detail.php/291897
and Nemos
Image
User avatar
Codeblue
Yaks 2 Much
Posts: 53322
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:00 am
Location: Expresso Beans

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:52 pm

Luls. Go intern for MBW.
RupertPupkin wrote:I live by this rule and this rule alone: people are drymounting idiots.
User avatar
treweman
Art Expert
Posts: 7085
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:53 pm
Location: upstate new york

Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:37 am

jjttdw wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:22 pm
I've got a bunch of Ben Kehoe paintings on my wall. I doubt they will ever be worth more than I paid but I like then.
I am a fan of twin brother Andy. The last two prints I have had framed were both by him. Would love to see photos of your Ben Kehoe pieces.
jvwoodford
Art Connoisseur
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:05 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:44 am

why are you trying to invest in prints? surely there are more efficient/lucrative/sensible/better things to invest in
User avatar
bubbie
Art Expert
Posts: 7180
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:49 pm
Location: Canada

Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:34 am

^ Not if you buy one-dollar stouts and flip them for four bills, obviously.
Post Reply