WTF is Crypto Art?

General art-related discussion.
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Codeblue
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:39 pm

Luls. Why wouldn't they? They still do tons of physical art.

P.S. Where did he post that, his fb group?

P.P.S. Kinda surprised duke doesn't have a Patreon since he's cool with people just sending him monies for (essentially) nothing.
RupertPupkin wrote:I live by this rule and this rule alone: people are drymounting idiots.
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Kdh12
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:20 pm

Doesn’t this debate feel like all other debates in this country right now. Either with us or against us and we all just dig in.
mmmm Beer :pint:
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jojobadass
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:21 pm

NFT art should be traded using a more volatile monetary system.......like maybe the Venezualan Bolivar or the Lebanese Pound?
For the best concert and movie posters available, check out: http://www.jojosposters.com

For other art crap....be sure to check out: http://www.jojosfineart.com

And for the kinkiest records in the world......check out the newest website in the Jojo Empire: http://www.jojosrecords.com
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ygolohcysp
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:56 pm

jojobadass wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:21 pm
NFT art should be traded using a more volatile monetary system.......like maybe the Venezualan Bolivar or the Lebanese Pound?
This guy gets it :clap:

I want to start buying my nfts with trucks full of Zimbabwe monies

Quite the rant by Miles. People obviously get upset about things they don't understand. There's not much to understand though, it's a very money oriented space. Which is what life is by default in this world.

I just don't get how he's ok with people sending him extra for nothing but he's not ok with taking people's money for digital art ownership.
Last edited by ygolohcysp on Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kdh12
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:58 pm

jojobadass wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:21 pm
NFT art should be traded using a more volatile monetary system.......like maybe the Venezualan Bolivar or the Lebanese Pound?
What hole you crawl outta
mmmm Beer :pint:
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jojobadass
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:59 pm

a tangible one!
For the best concert and movie posters available, check out: http://www.jojosposters.com

For other art crap....be sure to check out: http://www.jojosfineart.com

And for the kinkiest records in the world......check out the newest website in the Jojo Empire: http://www.jojosrecords.com
derivitive
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:31 pm

jojobadass wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:59 pm
a tangible one!
But is it also fungible?
papaver
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:42 pm

derivitive wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:09 pm
papaver wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:22 am
derivitive wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm
You mean MyChart, which is a shared system that keeps medical records private and allows you to authorize other medical professionals to access your records? https://www.mychart.com/


epic systems corporation can go suck it. centralized system run by some hacks with shitty closed source buggy ass code.
Care Everywhere is Epic's health information exchange software, which comes with its EHR system.[17] A 2014 article in The New York Times interviews two doctors who said that their Epic systems wouldn't allow them to share data with users of competitors' software in a way that will satisfy the Meaningful Use requirements of the HITECH Act. At first, Epic charged a fee to send data to some non-Epic systems.

A 2014 report by the RAND Corporation described Epic as a "closed" platform that made it "challenging and costly for hospitals" to interconnect with the clinical or billing software of other companies.[20] The report also cited other research showing that Epic's implementation in the Kaiser Permanente system led to efficiency losses.
sadly you don't get it.

weird too as you say you are technical. what about open source distributed systems can't you grasp exactly?
1) That's an 8 year old report.



2) Open source != open. APIs are a thing. Just like artists should get paid for work, so should software developers.

3) How do you not see how inefficient blockchain systems are currently? People are paying more in transaction fees than the cost of a NFT. How the hell does that make any sense?
1) but that makes it ok? right... so they sucked and now 8y later they are better... and that's all ok and they are forgiven.... hmm... i'm sure they aren't doing anything shady anymore... no closed system based company does...

2) no idea what your point is here. devs get paid 10x of artists. at least good devs. some 50x. some of the best projects in the startup space are free software who charge for support. nextjs / sentry / gatsby.

3) all you see is today. i guess you didn't use the web in the 90s.
papaver
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:43 pm

RottenAtom wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:34 pm
Miles Tsang's thoughts on NFTs:

I was going to write a comment on a fellow artist’s NFT thing, but this got long and I decided not to clog their fudge and just write on my own wall for anyone who cares to read. I get requests almost every day to mint my stuff on some blockchain (it’s even happened jokingly with people in my personal life). It's extremely annoying and I’m drymounting tired of it, so I’ll vent a bit here.
I’m disappointed in many of my fellow artists and wish more people would realize it’s ok to not participate because NFT's (as they are now) are stupid and only about commodifying/financializing every aspect of art/life made digital. An NFT is nothing but a digital certificate signifying you "own" a thing you cannot hold physically, and it locks you into a cryptocurrency ecosystem which is shaky and opaque by design. Buying an NFT is like buying a star or a piece of otherwise useless of cosmetic DLC in a videogame (like horse armour). Even though half the companies that sold those stars are now out of business and cosmetics in games have no effect on gameplay. In this environment, it's common for developers in the crypto market to disappear and steal from investors when a critical mass has been accumulated (look up "crypto rug pull"). It's also a way for unscrupulous buyers to money-launder since the laws haven't caught up to crypto yet, which is par for the course to unbridled big tech. Crypto aims to supplant banking in the same way Facebook aimed to supplant our lives and all artists participating are adding to it. It isn't about changing the system as much as it is removing accountability and concentrating power via a new and artificial scarce form of capital. If this is truly the path of history we are on, fine, but I don’t have to add to it and you don’t either, if you’re honest. There are (almost) always better ways to make money.
NFT's could be said to be about supporting artists by creating a space for exponential gains, but they are not about appreciating art. It’s big tech Sotheby’s. The only advantage for artists is that it creates a gambling scenario for buyers who believe that the pieces will go up in value over time. Like buying a poster for the flipping value over the appreciation for the art itself. Because if you really just loved the art and wanted the artist to make exorbitant amounts of money, why not just give it to them directly? Why do I need to digitally tokenize my artwork for you to pay me? If you love the art and believe in me so much, then drymount, just pay me $500-1k or more per poster instead of the usual $50-200 I ask. If you want, I could not send you a poster and just email a jpeg. I wouldn’t object.
I wish everyone participating in this grift (whether they acknowledge it as such or not) would look at the entire issue holistically. The impacts on the environment (crypto mining is awful and an unneeded expense on our atmosphere), the way more participation normalizes it and encourages others into what really feels like a MLM scheme, the lack of actual value inherent, the way it turns every piece of art into a mini stock market in which someone is going to lose by the end, only they won't have anything physical to show for it when they're the last one holding the bag and the injection of artificial scarcity (which is so stupid since you can just screencap any/every NFT that exists).
Scammers on NFT platforms like OpenSea are also notorious for stealing art from artists and selling it as if it were theirs the same way bots on FB and Twitter steal my artwork to use on bootleg t-shirts. The entire system is rife with disadvantages and opens up new avenues for piracy. NFT’s market themselves as the solution to a problem they are creating, which can only be solved by participating. “Well, if you were on the platform, then you could sell them yourself.” So the only way to avoid being thieved is to participate in the grift. How lame is that. Consent and respect are easily superseded in this system for those who decline its predatory advances.
Artists and developers should just be honest that this is about making more money above all else and speed-running the zeitgeist further into late stage hyper-capitalism instead of hiding behind high-minded ideals. Now, I don't think capitalism itself is always a bad thing, but I think there need to be checks and balances, and the whole crytpo-NFT scam is truly just about breaking all boundaries and supplanting old markets with new ones. It's not liberty, just diversification in a new kind of market. This isn’t a new system, it’s just creating digital fiefdoms and pressure for other artists to conform ("What, you don't wanna get rich, bro?"). And it's been really disappointing to see so many folks I respect uncritically go along with this just because it's an easy way to make more money.
Just say you want to make big money off of idiots who also don't know how half of this fudge works. I'd personally respect it more. And despite the tone of this comment, know that I'm doing my best not to unequivocally judge everyone who's going along with this. I just think there should be more critical conversations instead of confusion and endless cheerleading, which is an affect only those with uncritical curiosity and/or a vested interest adopt. The rest of us just want to call it out for how stupid and greedy it looks and wish people would do better and spend their time making money in healthier ways. But this is The World Today, where the dollar Trumps everything else. So. drymount the environment, drymount physical art, let’s turn everything into a gamble. Let's embrace the metaverse with open arms. Because uncritically slurping up everything tech has done over the past decade has gone over so well. Sounds very healthy and sustainable.
I’m not an expert, so maybe I have everything totally wrong. But from what I’ve read/seen/talked about to people on both sides of the issue, this is my understanding. And maybe my opinion might change as new information becomes available. But for now, this is all just gross and I wish people would leave it to the techbro idiot’s corner it deserves to be in. Anyway. As you all were. And stop drymounting asking me if I want to get in on this bullshit. No. drymounting. Thanks.
not even worth wasting 5m skimming though...
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jojobadass
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:49 pm

discord looks something I used in the 90's

or maybe even the 80's
For the best concert and movie posters available, check out: http://www.jojosposters.com

For other art crap....be sure to check out: http://www.jojosfineart.com

And for the kinkiest records in the world......check out the newest website in the Jojo Empire: http://www.jojosrecords.com
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acidburn
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:04 pm

jojobadass wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:49 pm
discord looks something I used in the 90's

or maybe even the 80's
lol its nicer then Mirc
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acidburn
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:06 pm

RottenAtom wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:34 pm
Miles Tsang's thoughts on NFTs:

I was going to write a comment on a fellow artist’s NFT thing, but this got long and I decided not to clog their fudge and just write on my own wall for anyone who cares to read. I get requests almost every day to mint my stuff on some blockchain (it’s even happened jokingly with people in my personal life). It's extremely annoying and I’m drymounting tired of it, so I’ll vent a bit here.
I’m disappointed in many of my fellow artists and wish more people would realize it’s ok to not participate because NFT's (as they are now) are stupid and only about commodifying/financializing every aspect of art/life made digital. An NFT is nothing but a digital certificate signifying you "own" a thing you cannot hold physically, and it locks you into a cryptocurrency ecosystem which is shaky and opaque by design. Buying an NFT is like buying a star or a piece of otherwise useless of cosmetic DLC in a videogame (like horse armour). Even though half the companies that sold those stars are now out of business and cosmetics in games have no effect on gameplay. In this environment, it's common for developers in the crypto market to disappear and steal from investors when a critical mass has been accumulated (look up "crypto rug pull"). It's also a way for unscrupulous buyers to money-launder since the laws haven't caught up to crypto yet, which is par for the course to unbridled big tech. Crypto aims to supplant banking in the same way Facebook aimed to supplant our lives and all artists participating are adding to it. It isn't about changing the system as much as it is removing accountability and concentrating power via a new and artificial scarce form of capital. If this is truly the path of history we are on, fine, but I don’t have to add to it and you don’t either, if you’re honest. There are (almost) always better ways to make money.
NFT's could be said to be about supporting artists by creating a space for exponential gains, but they are not about appreciating art. It’s big tech Sotheby’s. The only advantage for artists is that it creates a gambling scenario for buyers who believe that the pieces will go up in value over time. Like buying a poster for the flipping value over the appreciation for the art itself. Because if you really just loved the art and wanted the artist to make exorbitant amounts of money, why not just give it to them directly? Why do I need to digitally tokenize my artwork for you to pay me? If you love the art and believe in me so much, then drymount, just pay me $500-1k or more per poster instead of the usual $50-200 I ask. If you want, I could not send you a poster and just email a jpeg. I wouldn’t object.
I wish everyone participating in this grift (whether they acknowledge it as such or not) would look at the entire issue holistically. The impacts on the environment (crypto mining is awful and an unneeded expense on our atmosphere), the way more participation normalizes it and encourages others into what really feels like a MLM scheme, the lack of actual value inherent, the way it turns every piece of art into a mini stock market in which someone is going to lose by the end, only they won't have anything physical to show for it when they're the last one holding the bag and the injection of artificial scarcity (which is so stupid since you can just screencap any/every NFT that exists).
Scammers on NFT platforms like OpenSea are also notorious for stealing art from artists and selling it as if it were theirs the same way bots on FB and Twitter steal my artwork to use on bootleg t-shirts. The entire system is rife with disadvantages and opens up new avenues for piracy. NFT’s market themselves as the solution to a problem they are creating, which can only be solved by participating. “Well, if you were on the platform, then you could sell them yourself.” So the only way to avoid being thieved is to participate in the grift. How lame is that. Consent and respect are easily superseded in this system for those who decline its predatory advances.
Artists and developers should just be honest that this is about making more money above all else and speed-running the zeitgeist further into late stage hyper-capitalism instead of hiding behind high-minded ideals. Now, I don't think capitalism itself is always a bad thing, but I think there need to be checks and balances, and the whole crytpo-NFT scam is truly just about breaking all boundaries and supplanting old markets with new ones. It's not liberty, just diversification in a new kind of market. This isn’t a new system, it’s just creating digital fiefdoms and pressure for other artists to conform ("What, you don't wanna get rich, bro?"). And it's been really disappointing to see so many folks I respect uncritically go along with this just because it's an easy way to make more money.
Just say you want to make big money off of idiots who also don't know how half of this fudge works. I'd personally respect it more. And despite the tone of this comment, know that I'm doing my best not to unequivocally judge everyone who's going along with this. I just think there should be more critical conversations instead of confusion and endless cheerleading, which is an affect only those with uncritical curiosity and/or a vested interest adopt. The rest of us just want to call it out for how stupid and greedy it looks and wish people would do better and spend their time making money in healthier ways. But this is The World Today, where the dollar Trumps everything else. So. drymount the environment, drymount physical art, let’s turn everything into a gamble. Let's embrace the metaverse with open arms. Because uncritically slurping up everything tech has done over the past decade has gone over so well. Sounds very healthy and sustainable.
I’m not an expert, so maybe I have everything totally wrong. But from what I’ve read/seen/talked about to people on both sides of the issue, this is my understanding. And maybe my opinion might change as new information becomes available. But for now, this is all just gross and I wish people would leave it to the techbro idiot’s corner it deserves to be in. Anyway. As you all were. And stop drymounting asking me if I want to get in on this bullshit. No. drymounting. Thanks.
Just tell him to post that video. Its way easier.

And in other news...Tim Cook on Metaverse https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01 ... ccordingly
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maddog76
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:28 pm

Kdh12 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:20 pm
Doesn’t this debate feel like all other debates in this country right now. Either with us or against us and we all just dig in.
Yes. One side is objectively correct and one side are Trump EBers and cyrpto idiots.
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maddog76
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:29 pm

acidburn wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:06 pm
And in other news...Tim Cook on Metaverse https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01 ... ccordingly
so?
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acidburn
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:06 pm

maddog76 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:29 pm
acidburn wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:06 pm
And in other news...Tim Cook on Metaverse https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01 ... ccordingly
so?

So? The biggest company in the world is investing in the Metaverse....

You're like two companies away from canceling your own self.

Facebook
Twitter
Youtube
EB
Reddit
Apple
Tik Tok
Nike
Adidas
Microsoft
Instagram

The list just keeps getting bigger. Everyone is stupid.

The funny part about your previous comment is that Trump doesn't like Crypto. You guys should hang out.
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