WTF is Crypto Art?

General art-related discussion.
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acidburn
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:49 pm

derivitive wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:25 pm
plaink wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:29 pm
Chapter 6, at 1:11 nails this whole thread.
After spending some time on a Discord before and during the NFT release, I want even less to do with anything related to NFTs. All the greed and get rich quick mentality is toxic and those Discords are a real time echo chamber.
You don’t want anything to do with nfts? I think you post more about nfts here then anyone else. Roughly 40% of your posts are about them.
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HisBobness
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:28 pm

plaink wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:48 pm
It’s the cheap version.
lol
papaver
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:42 pm

derivitive wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:25 pm
plaink wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:29 pm
Chapter 6, at 1:11 nails this whole thread.
After spending some time on a Discord before and during the NFT release, I want even less to do with anything related to NFTs. All the greed and get rich quick mentality is toxic and those Discords are a real time echo chamber.
happy to hear. :hanging:
papaver
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:57 pm

acidburn wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:08 am
Also a positive note?I guess everything is going great in the world where ppl can sit down for 2 hours to watch reasons why people are stupid for collecting digital items.
haha. was listening on 2x speed.

there are many issues with the scene. but it's getting better. and i'd rather be part of the group making it better than the losers just complaining things aren't perfect.
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FrankBooth
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:04 pm

papaver wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:57 pm
haha. was listening on 2x speed.

there are many issues with the scene. but it's getting better. and i'd rather be part of the group making it better than the losers just complaining things aren't perfect.
A curious angle, what dictates making it better?
ImageImageImage

Original Comic Art Collection: http://cafurl.com?i=25041
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ygolohcysp
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:15 pm

papaver wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:57 pm
acidburn wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:08 am
Also a positive note?I guess everything is going great in the world where ppl can sit down for 2 hours to watch reasons why people are stupid for collecting digital items.
haha. was listening on 2x speed.

there are many issues with the scene. but it's getting better. and i'd rather be part of the group making it better than the losers just complaining things aren't perfect.
Hell yes, I'm right there with you. I cringe regularly in discord land but you know what... Those people are paying the bills.
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ygolohcysp
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Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:16 pm

FrankBooth wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:04 pm
papaver wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:57 pm
haha. was listening on 2x speed.

there are many issues with the scene. but it's getting better. and i'd rather be part of the group making it better than the losers just complaining things aren't perfect.
A curious angle, what dictates making it better?
When "clout" is one of the main draws, really what CAN you do? Make 💰, that's what. You're perfectly positioned if you care not for clout.
papaver
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Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:06 pm

FrankBooth wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:04 pm
papaver wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:57 pm
haha. was listening on 2x speed.

there are many issues with the scene. but it's getting better. and i'd rather be part of the group making it better than the losers just complaining things aren't perfect.
A curious angle, what dictates making it better?
making it safer for collectors. the crypto scene 5yo i wouldn't have touched with a 10ft pole. but using exchanges based in the US like coinbase are safe from you loosing all your money from a rug pull or scamming owners. all that can ever be done is educating and creating a safer environment. it's not for others to judge how you choose to spend your time or money.

all these arguments on energy use are utter nonsense. if using too much energy should be considered, then we should shut down space travel. we should stop making movies and especially games. people can't even fathom the amount of energy wasted making movies or how much daily is pissed away by the literally 100m+ gpus playing games for hours and hours on end.

miners are paying for energy like everyone else.

the worst part about the video is his fudge attitude. to create change there needs to be visionaries thinking of going to mars so we take a step forward and land on the moon. he's good at pissing on everything. but offers absolutely 0 solutions for anything. obviously no one wants their health records in plain sight. that's just drymounting idiotic. and it just making him sound like a moron. but having records on some sort of shared system where they can be kept private but accessed any medical professional you authorize? i don't see how thats a problem.
derivitive
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Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm

papaver wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:06 pm
FrankBooth wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:04 pm
papaver wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:57 pm
haha. was listening on 2x speed.

there are many issues with the scene. but it's getting better. and i'd rather be part of the group making it better than the losers just complaining things aren't perfect.
A curious angle, what dictates making it better?
making it safer for collectors. the crypto scene 5yo i wouldn't have touched with a 10ft pole. but using exchanges based in the US like coinbase are safe from you loosing all your money from a rug pull or scamming owners. all that can ever be done is educating and creating a safer environment. it's not for others to judge how you choose to spend your time or money.

all these arguments on energy use are utter nonsense. if using too much energy should be considered, then we should shut down space travel. we should stop making movies and especially games. people can't even fathom the amount of energy wasted making movies or how much daily is pissed away by the literally 100m+ gpus playing games for hours and hours on end.

miners are paying for energy like everyone else.

the worst part about the video is his fudge attitude. to create change there needs to be visionaries thinking of going to mars so we take a step forward and land on the moon. he's good at pissing on everything. but offers absolutely 0 solutions for anything. obviously no one wants their health records in plain sight. that's just drymounting idiotic. and it just making him sound like a moron. but having records on some sort of shared system where they can be kept private but accessed any medical professional you authorize? i don't see how thats a problem.
You mean MyChart, which is a shared system that keeps medical records private and allows you to authorize other medical professionals to access your records? https://www.mychart.com/

The problem isn't pissing on blockchains or NFTs and not offering a solution, blockchains and NFTs are the problem that isn't a part of the solution.
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Kdh12
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Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:01 pm

papaver wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:06 pm
. but having records on some sort of shared system where they can be kept private but accessed any medical professional you authorize? i don't see how thats a problem.
I’m putting a lot of my crypto investment into SCRT as they are building a network that does this very thing.
mmmm Beer :pint:
papaver
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:22 am

derivitive wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm
You mean MyChart, which is a shared system that keeps medical records private and allows you to authorize other medical professionals to access your records? https://www.mychart.com/


epic systems corporation can go suck it. centralized system run by some hacks with shitty closed source buggy ass code.
Care Everywhere is Epic's health information exchange software, which comes with its EHR system.[17] A 2014 article in The New York Times interviews two doctors who said that their Epic systems wouldn't allow them to share data with users of competitors' software in a way that will satisfy the Meaningful Use requirements of the HITECH Act. At first, Epic charged a fee to send data to some non-Epic systems.

A 2014 report by the RAND Corporation described Epic as a "closed" platform that made it "challenging and costly for hospitals" to interconnect with the clinical or billing software of other companies.[20] The report also cited other research showing that Epic's implementation in the Kaiser Permanente system led to efficiency losses.
sadly you don't get it.

weird too as you say you are technical. what about open source distributed systems can't you grasp exactly?
derivitive
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:09 pm

papaver wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:22 am
derivitive wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm
You mean MyChart, which is a shared system that keeps medical records private and allows you to authorize other medical professionals to access your records? https://www.mychart.com/


epic systems corporation can go suck it. centralized system run by some hacks with shitty closed source buggy ass code.
Care Everywhere is Epic's health information exchange software, which comes with its EHR system.[17] A 2014 article in The New York Times interviews two doctors who said that their Epic systems wouldn't allow them to share data with users of competitors' software in a way that will satisfy the Meaningful Use requirements of the HITECH Act. At first, Epic charged a fee to send data to some non-Epic systems.

A 2014 report by the RAND Corporation described Epic as a "closed" platform that made it "challenging and costly for hospitals" to interconnect with the clinical or billing software of other companies.[20] The report also cited other research showing that Epic's implementation in the Kaiser Permanente system led to efficiency losses.
sadly you don't get it.

weird too as you say you are technical. what about open source distributed systems can't you grasp exactly?
1) That's an 8 year old report.

2) Open source != open. APIs are a thing. Just like artists should get paid for work, so should software developers.

3) How do you not see how inefficient blockchain systems are currently? People are paying more in transaction fees than the cost of a NFT. How the hell does that make any sense?
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earlgreytoast
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:49 pm

+2 clouds! Whoop! Under $100 each, fantastic. You rock Papaver.
Codeblue wrote: I’m sorry for everything.
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RottenAtom
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:34 pm

Miles Tsang's thoughts on NFTs:

I was going to write a comment on a fellow artist’s NFT thing, but this got long and I decided not to clog their fudge and just write on my own wall for anyone who cares to read. I get requests almost every day to mint my stuff on some blockchain (it’s even happened jokingly with people in my personal life). It's extremely annoying and I’m drymounting tired of it, so I’ll vent a bit here.
I’m disappointed in many of my fellow artists and wish more people would realize it’s ok to not participate because NFT's (as they are now) are stupid and only about commodifying/financializing every aspect of art/life made digital. An NFT is nothing but a digital certificate signifying you "own" a thing you cannot hold physically, and it locks you into a cryptocurrency ecosystem which is shaky and opaque by design. Buying an NFT is like buying a star or a piece of otherwise useless of cosmetic DLC in a videogame (like horse armour). Even though half the companies that sold those stars are now out of business and cosmetics in games have no effect on gameplay. In this environment, it's common for developers in the crypto market to disappear and steal from investors when a critical mass has been accumulated (look up "crypto rug pull"). It's also a way for unscrupulous buyers to money-launder since the laws haven't caught up to crypto yet, which is par for the course to unbridled big tech. Crypto aims to supplant banking in the same way Facebook aimed to supplant our lives and all artists participating are adding to it. It isn't about changing the system as much as it is removing accountability and concentrating power via a new and artificial scarce form of capital. If this is truly the path of history we are on, fine, but I don’t have to add to it and you don’t either, if you’re honest. There are (almost) always better ways to make money.
NFT's could be said to be about supporting artists by creating a space for exponential gains, but they are not about appreciating art. It’s big tech Sotheby’s. The only advantage for artists is that it creates a gambling scenario for buyers who believe that the pieces will go up in value over time. Like buying a poster for the flipping value over the appreciation for the art itself. Because if you really just loved the art and wanted the artist to make exorbitant amounts of money, why not just give it to them directly? Why do I need to digitally tokenize my artwork for you to pay me? If you love the art and believe in me so much, then drymount, just pay me $500-1k or more per poster instead of the usual $50-200 I ask. If you want, I could not send you a poster and just email a jpeg. I wouldn’t object.
I wish everyone participating in this grift (whether they acknowledge it as such or not) would look at the entire issue holistically. The impacts on the environment (crypto mining is awful and an unneeded expense on our atmosphere), the way more participation normalizes it and encourages others into what really feels like a MLM scheme, the lack of actual value inherent, the way it turns every piece of art into a mini stock market in which someone is going to lose by the end, only they won't have anything physical to show for it when they're the last one holding the bag and the injection of artificial scarcity (which is so stupid since you can just screencap any/every NFT that exists).
Scammers on NFT platforms like OpenSea are also notorious for stealing art from artists and selling it as if it were theirs the same way bots on FB and Twitter steal my artwork to use on bootleg t-shirts. The entire system is rife with disadvantages and opens up new avenues for piracy. NFT’s market themselves as the solution to a problem they are creating, which can only be solved by participating. “Well, if you were on the platform, then you could sell them yourself.” So the only way to avoid being thieved is to participate in the grift. How lame is that. Consent and respect are easily superseded in this system for those who decline its predatory advances.
Artists and developers should just be honest that this is about making more money above all else and speed-running the zeitgeist further into late stage hyper-capitalism instead of hiding behind high-minded ideals. Now, I don't think capitalism itself is always a bad thing, but I think there need to be checks and balances, and the whole crytpo-NFT scam is truly just about breaking all boundaries and supplanting old markets with new ones. It's not liberty, just diversification in a new kind of market. This isn’t a new system, it’s just creating digital fiefdoms and pressure for other artists to conform ("What, you don't wanna get rich, bro?"). And it's been really disappointing to see so many folks I respect uncritically go along with this just because it's an easy way to make more money.
Just say you want to make big money off of idiots who also don't know how half of this fudge works. I'd personally respect it more. And despite the tone of this comment, know that I'm doing my best not to unequivocally judge everyone who's going along with this. I just think there should be more critical conversations instead of confusion and endless cheerleading, which is an affect only those with uncritical curiosity and/or a vested interest adopt. The rest of us just want to call it out for how stupid and greedy it looks and wish people would do better and spend their time making money in healthier ways. But this is The World Today, where the dollar Trumps everything else. So. drymount the environment, drymount physical art, let’s turn everything into a gamble. Let's embrace the metaverse with open arms. Because uncritically slurping up everything tech has done over the past decade has gone over so well. Sounds very healthy and sustainable.
I’m not an expert, so maybe I have everything totally wrong. But from what I’ve read/seen/talked about to people on both sides of the issue, this is my understanding. And maybe my opinion might change as new information becomes available. But for now, this is all just gross and I wish people would leave it to the techbro idiot’s corner it deserves to be in. Anyway. As you all were. And stop drymounting asking me if I want to get in on this bullshit. No. drymounting. Thanks.
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derivitive
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Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:54 pm

Guess Bottleneck won't be working with Miles anymore
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