Art Galleries Vs. Looters/Riots

General art-related discussion.
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Cinlabyrinth
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:21 am

so my car insurance only works if they know beforehand i'm about to crash/be crashed into?
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aldobishalini
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:35 am

Cinlabyrinth wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:21 am
so my car insurance only works if they know beforehand i'm about to crash/be crashed into?
Seriously. It is completely counter intuitive to think insurance doesn't cover anything that is unpredicted haha

However, if two friends agreed that they would both run their cars into each other, it would prove that the crash was completely planned, predictable, and 100% covered by insurance. :clap:
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jjttdw
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:43 am

As a consultant I calculated the financial loses of hundreds of companies on covered perils from fire, theft and even government ordered shutdowns. I don't recall a single legitimate one where the insured knew the loss was coming. Comically the ones where they did know it was coming were fraudulent. One of my favorites was a small electronics store that was claiming a $20k theft. The valuation placed on the "stolen" items was way higher than market replacement cost. The guy submitted an invoice for the original purchase of the computers claimed as stolen which I sent to the supplier to the confirm. The supplier sent it back with a note that read "This is not one of my invoices. Notice that I know how to spell the word "invoice"." The spelling on the invoice the guy gave was "invioce."

That job was a half a lifetime ago...
NEWPORTS69 wrote:ive kept journal for very long time and ranked public restrooms because i srs hate using them, was working on an app but im not very smart
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ygolohcysp
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:47 am

Predictable as in assigning a probability and setting a rate. Not a magic 8 ball dudes, come on.

That said, looks like the information I was given was not correct. Everything I've read since says the opposite.

https://www.iii.org/insuranceindustrybl ... insurance/
A public relations nightmare

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jjttdw
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:07 pm

Curiously who / where did the bad information come from?
NEWPORTS69 wrote:ive kept journal for very long time and ranked public restrooms because i srs hate using them, was working on an app but im not very smart
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charter
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:24 pm

Gonna suck when they have to pay a deductible and their renewal rates shoot through the roof.
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jjttdw
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Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:53 pm

The deductible will suck. I'm not sure it works the way an at fault accident works with the insured being rated up. For an at fault auto accident or ticket you've done something that puts you in an area of the risk table that merits higher premiums. Riots and looting are so infrequent that the costs already may be baked in. If rates go up they probably would go up for everyone, not just those with claims.
NEWPORTS69 wrote:ive kept journal for very long time and ranked public restrooms because i srs hate using them, was working on an app but im not very smart
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KingOfNothing
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:06 am

This article will open your eyes, especially if you think you're ever going to get "market rate" for anything you own that is lost or destroyed. That goes for anything, not just art. Remember, this isn't based on what "you hope" to get, "because 'X' sold theirs for 'Y'" there's a mathematical equation that is factored, how much are you paying for your policy, do you carry "full replacement value" AND what was the last valuation for whatever item you are claiming, whether it's a Toaster Oven that's 10 years old or a Warhol from 1979. You better have documentation up the ying-yang to argue the total value of all your junk. You'll be lucky if you financially get 50% of what you think you are owed, and that's regardless of if you have "full-on Cadillac" coverage.

Look around you, when is the last time you fully documented: i.e., taken multiple angled photos of every single item you own, every piece of silverware, chair, DVD, BLU Ray, T-Shirt, socks, underwear, dress shoe, Art Print, Funko toy, that mint on card Star Wars figure form The Last Jedi, etc.,. I thought so... PLUS receipts of purchases to back that up... if your house, trailer, apartment, parents basement burnt down tomorrow, you'll be lucky if the insurance company cuts you a check for a few thousand dollars. And that's if you have everything documented and backed up on a hard-drive that isn't stored in the same house that just burnt down. It's your word against the insurance co.'s, prove it.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/asses ... im-1071725

*edit to add, your life will be much more easy to deal with if you give your insurance co. an annual updated list (with copies of receipts) of all the new art work you currently own, so they can adjust how much your policy is worth and how much said policy will cost you. The flat-file in the corner of your room depends on this. Or you can roll the dice and hope you can salvage the signed remains of the Mondo prints to argue your case.
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fantasticninja
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:42 am

Anyone see the video of people randomly breaking in to a 80% minority owned art gallery in CA. And after being told, people kept stealing and running away? Hopefully the black business owners that have been hit have insurance. FYI, most black owned business are going to go bankrupt after this. """"BLM"""" really kicked the communities when they were down from this pandemic. Insurance? Who cares. It won't be enough, and it won't help everyone.

RIP David Dorn, RIP, David Patrick Underwood. Your lives didn't matter to them. Insurance won't be able to get you back.
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ygolohcysp
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:04 am

fantasticninja wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:42 am
Anyone see the video of people randomly breaking in to a 80% minority owned art gallery in CA. And after being told, people kept stealing and running away? Hopefully the black business owners that have been hit have insurance. FYI, most black owned business are going to go bankrupt after this. """"BLM"""" really kicked the communities when they were down from this pandemic. Insurance? Who cares. It won't be enough, and it won't help everyone.

RIP David Dorn, RIP, David Patrick Underwood. Your lives didn't matter to them. Insurance won't be able to get you back.
Wow so you think the BLM movement did all the looting? Are you high?
A public relations nightmare

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jjttdw
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:39 am

KingOfNothing wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:06 am
This article will open your eyes, especially if you think you're ever going to get "market rate" for anything you own that is lost or destroyed. That goes for anything, not just art. Remember, this isn't based on what "you hope" to get, "because 'X' sold theirs for 'Y'" there's a mathematical equation that is factored, how much are you paying for your policy, do you carry "full replacement value" AND what was the last valuation for whatever item you are claiming, whether it's a Toaster Oven that's 10 years old or a Warhol from 1979. You better have documentation up the ying-yang to argue the total value of all your junk. You'll be lucky if you financially get 50% of what you think you are owed, and that's regardless of if you have "full-on Cadillac" coverage.

Look around you, when is the last time you fully documented: i.e., taken multiple angled photos of every single item you own, every piece of silverware, chair, DVD, BLU Ray, T-Shirt, socks, underwear, dress shoe, Art Print, Funko toy, that mint on card Star Wars figure form The Last Jedi, etc.,. I thought so... PLUS receipts of purchases to back that up... if your house, trailer, apartment, parents basement burnt down tomorrow, you'll be lucky if the insurance company cuts you a check for a few thousand dollars. And that's if you have everything documented and backed up on a hard-drive that isn't stored in the same house that just burnt down. It's your word against the insurance co.'s, prove it.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/asses ... im-1071725

*edit to add, your life will be much more easy to deal with if you give your insurance co. an annual updated list (with copies of receipts) of all the new art work you currently own, so they can adjust how much your policy is worth and how much said policy will cost you. The flat-file in the corner of your room depends on this. Or you can roll the dice and hope you can salvage the signed remains of the Mondo prints to argue your case.
Best way IMO to document your belongings is to walk around your house with a video camera once a year. Give the video to a family member

Insofar as art / silver / jewelry are concerned, almost every policy has internal limits for these types of items. These limits are usually only a few thousand dollars. If you have $100k in artwork and your place burns you will get a couple thousand unless you have the items scheduled.

If you want to schedule the items for insurance you will be asked to prove value. Got a $20k ring? They will want to see an appraisal. As to artwork, I've used EB to show the market value. Some carriers will want to inspect your collection to confirm you actually own what you are trying to insure.

Oh, and only dumbasses have actual cash value policies....people with half a brain have replacement cost coverage.
NEWPORTS69 wrote:ive kept journal for very long time and ranked public restrooms because i srs hate using them, was working on an app but im not very smart
kansasbbq
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:53 pm

jjttdw wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:39 am
Oh, and only dumbasses have actual cash value policies....people with half a brain have replacement cost coverage.
This!
Codeblue wrote:#whydidntilisten2kbbq
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Codeblue
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:15 pm

Still haven't heard from a single person who's had to put in a claim for a serious amount of damaged art prints/posters in the vein of what we collect. Me thinks ya'll would be in for a rude awakening if/when it eva happened regardless of what the "policy" is.
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ygolohcysp
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Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:19 pm

Codeblue wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:15 pm
Still haven't heard from a single person who's had to put in a claim for a serious amount of damaged art prints/posters in the vein of what we collect. Me thinks ya'll would be in for a rude awakening if/when it eva happened regardless of what the "policy" is.
💯

I have all my inventory insured for cost (what I paid), maintaining anything else would be time prohibitive and likely won't matter if something comes up.
A public relations nightmare

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