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Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:44 pm
by chalkdust
Bernie sounding like hell. Mayor Pete killin it as usual

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:45 pm
by chalkdust
Kamala not doing too bad either

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:58 pm
by mobius006
chalkdust wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:44 pm
Bernie sounding like hell. Mayor Pete killin it as usual
mobius006 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:54 pm
ya'll gonna be on the Warren/Buttigieg train soon enough.

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:32 am
by jjttdw
I wonder what would happen in the polls with Warren's numbers if Bernie dropped out. Would she absorb most of his support?

I would love to see Mayor Pete destroy Pence in a debate

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:09 am
by gorkie
Pence is basically brain dead. His face looks like it hurts him to think about anything other than Jesus. A fifth grader would destroy him in a debate. He’s a robotic idiot. Exactly what Dump can relate to and appreciates in a crony.

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:06 am
by HenryGaleWasHere

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:13 am
by sixstringer

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:30 am
by mobius006
sixstringer wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:13 am
Warren - I've Actually Never Met Anybody Who Likes Their Health Insurance Company
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... mpany.html

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:01 pm
by sixstringer
Exactly. I think it's disgusting to see some of the "dems" on stage using republican talking points to fear monger.

“While Bernie wrote the bill, I read the bill,” Klobuchar fired at Sanders, arguing that the plan would remove millions of Americans off their private health insurance. "And on page eight – on page eight of the bill it says that we will no longer have private insurance as we know it." - Klobuchar

Yeah and they are going to replace that private insurance with something 100 times better and they're going to cover every man, woman, and child.


"The problem Sen. Sanders with that damn bill that you wrote, and Sen. Warren backs, is that it doesn't trust the American people," Buttigieg said Thursday at the Democratic debate in Houston. "I trust you to choose what makes the most sense for you. Not my way or the highway. I trust the American people to make the right choice for them, why don’t you?" - Mayor Pete

Right, cause the American people have so much freedom of "choice" the way things are now. You can choose to stay at your shitty job because you're afraid if you quit you'll loose your coverage. You can choose from the list of plans offered at said employer (which is usually only one) and that plan is subject to change at any time. You can choose from the list of providers your insurance provider decides are in their network. You can choose the procedures you insurance provider deem necessary. Right now my wife and I have chosen and $1200/mo high deductible plan off the exchange which covers virtually nothing until we've shelled out a small fortune. So much choice!

This is why I can't even consider anyone other than Bernie/Warren (unless they get the nom of course!)

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:43 pm
by HenryGaleWasHere
sixstringer wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:01 pm
Exactly. I think it's disgusting to see some of the "dems" on stage using republican talking points to fear monger.

“While Bernie wrote the bill, I read the bill,” Klobuchar fired at Sanders, arguing that the plan would remove millions of Americans off their private health insurance. "And on page eight – on page eight of the bill it says that we will no longer have private insurance as we know it." - Klobuchar

Yeah and they are going to replace that private insurance with something 100 times better and they're going to cover every man, woman, and child.


"The problem Sen. Sanders with that damn bill that you wrote, and Sen. Warren backs, is that it doesn't trust the American people," Buttigieg said Thursday at the Democratic debate in Houston. "I trust you to choose what makes the most sense for you. Not my way or the highway. I trust the American people to make the right choice for them, why don’t you?" - Mayor Pete

Right, cause the American people have so much freedom of "choice" the way things are now. You can choose to stay at your shitty job because you're afraid if you quit you'll loose your coverage. You can choose from the list of plans offered at said employer (which is usually only one) and that plan is subject to change at any time. You can choose from the list of providers your insurance provider decides are in their network. You can choose the procedures you insurance provider deem necessary. Right now my wife and I have chosen and $1200/mo high deductible plan off the exchange which covers virtually nothing until we've shelled out a small fortune. So much choice!

This is why I can't even consider anyone other than Bernie/Warren (unless they get the nom of course!)
Yup. I thought that was a shitty answer from Buttigieg. And why is Klobuchar still around? She is so boring... what does she even bring to the table?

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:01 pm
by jjttdw
Ya gotta walk before you crawl. That was what the ACA was. Make that work first before embarking on Medicare for all IMO. I think that people believe that the government can just fudge out a single payer system. It ain't easy and would likely take a generation. In the interim, lets fix some of the messed up stuff we already have:

- Unfuck the tax code so that every dollar of premium paid is tax deductible by those who don't have an employer option.
- Codify the pre-existing conditions language

The list goes on and on...

Here is a dirty little secret that no one tells you about countries with socialized healthcare systems: there is private insurance in those places too. My Norwegian neighbor said that there is a public system that pretty much takes care of everything but sometimes you have to wait. Need a knee replacement? It might be a 9 month wait. Some people in Norway have private insurance that they can use to skip the line. Kinda like a fast pass at Disney.

TL/DR version: NONE of the Democratic candidates can deliver Medicare for all. None. They can keep the ship headed in the right direction and eventually we will get there but that is it.

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:16 pm
by gorkie
HenryGaleWasHere wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:43 pm
Yup. I thought that was a shitty answer from Buttigieg. And why is Klobuchar still around? She is so boring... what does she even bring to the table?
Dinner, if she knows what’s good for her!!

Hey now!
Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all weekend.

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:52 pm
by gorkie
Why aren't voters more willing to abandon a health system that's failing?

Medicare-for-all needs a better answer to the public's fears.


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... sh-bruenig

Some will remember this as a defining debate around the Affordable Care Act. One lesson Democrats took from the collapse of the Clinton administration’s 1994 reforms was that Americans hated the idea of the government canceling their insurance plans. In deference to that view, the ACA was designed to leave most existing health coverage intact, and President Obama repeatedly promised that no one would lose insurance they liked. Even so, about 3 million plans did get canceled because they were beneath the ACA’s minimum standards for health insurance, and the political backlash was fierce.
This debate has reemerged in the runup to 2020. Bernie Sanders’s Medicare-for-all plan, as currently written, would cancel every private insurance plan in the country. Polling suggests that’s lethal: When told that Medicare-for-all would abolish private insurance, respondents flip from favoring the plan by a 56 percent to 38 percent margin to opposing it by a 58 percent to 37 percent margin. These numbers, when combined with the Obamacare backlash and the Clintoncare experience, have underscored reformers’ view that a plan that takes away the private insurance people have and like is doomed.

The core insight here is real: So long as a third party is providing your health insurance, you don’t have full control of its future. You may like the health plan your employer provides now, but they could change that plan, or you could change jobs, or be laid off. The problem is that point applies to public insurance too.
Imagine President Bernie Sanders passes Medicare-for-all in 2022. In 2024, amid a backlash to rising tax rates, Sanders loses reelection to Ohio Sen. Rob Portman. Working with a Republican Congress, Portman restructures Medicare-for-all in a few ways. Where Sanders included coverage for abortion, Portman bars it totally. Where Sanders designed the program to avoid copays and deductibles, Portman, a believer in health savings accounts, reworks it to frontload the cost-sharing. Where Sanders guaranteed coverage to everyone, including unauthorized immigrants, Portman restricts it to legal residents, and adds a work requirement for able-bodied adults.

If any of that sounds far-fetched, consider that Republicans were a single vote away from repealing Obamacare in 2017, and the Trump administration approved Wisconsin’s request to add premiums and a work requirement to its Medicaid program in 2018.
The skepticism Bruenig brings to private insurance is the same skepticism many bring to single-payer insurance. You like your government-provided health plan? Better cross your fingers, because your side just lost the White House, and the incoming administration wants to slash health care spending by 15 percent, drug-test all beneficiaries, and turn the whole thing over to private contractors.

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:49 pm
by mobius006
1. Once people have a subsidy, its extremely hard to take it away.
2. In the event its limited like gorkie outlines, i'll gladly give PP money per month to help people out.

I would love my taxes to be higher if it freed my healthcare from my work. We've already hit the breaking point on what companies can pay. Letting the ACA keep going really isnt a solution IMO. If the Trump would of kept one promises and let insurance compete across statelines, then it be a tad different story. The GOP has no intention of letting that happen, or else they would of done something when they had the chance to.

The ACA was also put in place with the idea the GOP would keep working with people, sadly we have todays world instead.

ALSO

The idea that people are not waiting in our current system is a joke. ERs are filled with people who honestly could just need general care, and take up space. Those people under MCA would get the help at a local doctor, instead of putting it off FOREVER till they sit in an ER. I've had my wife pushed recent from something, being told to come back in a month. She was also transferred from one hospital to another in the past for surgery, do to it not being life threatening so they shopped her around to a place that took her insurance at the time. Same thing happened to my Father for a heart valve.

The current system is broken. The idea that there is Consumer Choice in the market place is a joke. You have Blue Shirt, or slight less Blue Shirt. Whoops, on ER was filled so you got taken to Zuckerbergs hospital? Enjoy your 3x in charges.

Re: 2020 Elections - A New Hope

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:36 am
by pvecchi
jjttdw wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:01 pm

Here is a dirty little secret that no one tells you about countries with socialized healthcare systems: there is private insurance in those places too. My Norwegian neighbor said that there is a public system that pretty much takes care of everything but sometimes you have to wait. Need a knee replacement? It might be a 9 month wait. Some people in Norway have private insurance that they can use to skip the line. Kinda like a fast pass at Disney.

TL/DR version: NONE of the Democratic candidates can deliver Medicare for all. None. They can keep the ship headed in the right direction and eventually we will get there but that is it.
Neither party wants to acknowledge that private health insurance will never go away, even with MFA or a public option (which I think is a good thing to start with).

The R don’t to fear monger how it will force people into no option government run healthcare

The D don’t because it suggests that MFA system *isn’t* as fast or good as the current systems in place

Personally, I don’t think the D have communicated effectively health / life expectancy or cost per capita here compared to a country that has UHC