America: The Trump Era

Civics, civilly. Post lifetime is 6 months.
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gorkie
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:20 am

Why Young Men of Color Are Joining White-Supremacist Groups

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-young ... ist-groups
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. - Thoreau
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finneganm
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:29 am

gorkie wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:53 am
This particular argument of yours doesn’t work, Finn.
Because when you are using the OK sign to communicate “OK”, then it clearly means OK.
It’s not rocket science. OK?
So if anybody is intentionally making the white power hand sign when they are not specifically trying to reply “OK” to something, then they should be called out on it. And using it and hoping it creates a stir and debate over a plausible deniability scenario is just as bad, because the person isn’t ignorant as to the modern day meaning.
The swastika was a religious symbol of divinity and spirituality for many cultures before Hitler and the Nazis stole it and twisted its meaning. So when it gets used on a Jewish tombstone or on a T-shirt are you going to defend it?
You’re comparing the ok sign/circle game with the swastika. One is universally associated with one of the most horrific things that has ever happened in the history of humanity, something whose gravity and importance outweighs any previous connotations or meanings a thousand fold. And one was made up by trolls on 4chan. You think that’s a fair comparison? Cool.


Let me try to articulate a little better.

In all of the pictures above, I would agree that those people are probably dog whistling their shriveled little hearts out. I’m comfortable saying that because I’m pretty sure all of them are either white supremacists themselves, or trying their drymounting hardest to fit in with that group as best they can.

Now, a random any army cadet at a football game, who was thoroughly investigated into whether they were trying to dog whistle or simply playing a juvenile game, and the conclusion of that investigation was that they were playing a juvenile game? I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, because based on the information I have in front of me, they were playing a juvenile game and not everyone is a terrible person.

Is that naive? Or is your “disgusting” comment perhaps a smidge overblown. Like comparing the ok sign to a drymounting swastika.

#Nineespressossndandeightballwoke
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gorkie
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:34 am

Honestly I’m not even going to read that.
I’m genuinely over this stupid discussion. It’s a waste of time.
Have a good one.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. - Thoreau
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finneganm
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:05 am

Cool
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That's what she said
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gorkie
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:39 am

Trump rails against windmills: 'I never understood wind'

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... stood-wind
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sixstringer
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 am

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graphics dept mole ftw.
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finneganm
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:08 am

Luls
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gorkie
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:12 pm

Ees a koo.

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ToolFanFromWayBack
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:37 pm

So now he has been impeached, so what? I hate trump as much as the next guy, but what did this prove? That almost all Dems hate him enough to impeach while most of the Pubs support him (at least in public) - we knew that 2 years ago. He is not going to be ousted and I don’t see this changing the minds of the people on who(m?) to vote for in the coming election and may push more moderates to not vote at all.

As a great bard once wrote:
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
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Presenting Codeblue's 30000th post -
Codeblue wrote:bump
turnJBup
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:16 pm

It signifies that some are still willing to uphold the law.
I’m hoping it signifies the end of the red senate.
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ErocAfellar
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:31 pm

There are very few truly moderate voters. Registered as independent or not registered to a political party is not the same as "moderate." I don't believe the number of actual undecided voters, who would make their decision based on impeachment, is large enough to make a major impact in the election. I don't agree with every aspect of how it was implemented but they gotta hold him accountable, removal or not. Kowtowing to "moderate" voters is not a viable long-term strategy for Dem success.
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chalkdust
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 pm

I still say Dump quits before this is all over. He's a born quitter/loser. He's not handling all this heat well. It will get way worse in the coming weeks
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gorkie
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:52 am

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mtarail
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:04 am

finneganm wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:29 am

Now, a random any army cadet at a football game, who was thoroughly investigated into whether they were trying to dog whistle or simply playing a juvenile game, and the conclusion of that investigation was that they were playing a juvenile game? I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, because based on the information I have in front of me, they were playing a juvenile game and not everyone is a terrible person.
I am not gonna directly compare an Army cadet to a Nazi. But I'm also not going to let this slide. West Point and Annapolis are our country's two most elite military universities. So we would no more let this slide than, I would hope, we would let it slide if a number of college students filmed at a Stanford, or Cal, or Michigan game were making alt-right gestures on camera.

Is there a difference between West Point/Annapolis and Stanford? Uh, yeah. Those students at West Point/Annapolis receive specific training on their presentation to the public.

One of the "pillars" of a West Point education is character, which, at 47 months, is a program that tracks during the students entire undergrad education, including all but 1 month of every summer. https://www.westpoint.edu/character_pillar

I don't believe these 18+ year old adults for a minute, doing what they did in their full uniforms, knowing that they are being filmed in close proximity to the president. Especially knowing that the alt-right's SOP is to cloak their use of symbols and practices in the same double-meanings and "so-called" ambiguities that these college students/future military leaders have apparently used to justify their actions. Given this adminstration, the people in it, (Miller, etc). and the so-called investigations that they have conducted in the past, (Kavanaugh, etc), I do not have any confidence that any real investigation was ever conducted in the first place.
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finneganm
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Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:51 am

You may be right. Those kids very well might be white supremacists. Maybe. But also, you know, maybe not.

If you don’t believe there was really an investigation, ok. If you know in your heart that the cadet is a racist monster, ok. I don’t know either of those things to be true. They very well might be, sure. But I’m not convinced a conspiracy plan was enacted to cover up and protect a racist cadet, and I’m not going to judge the character of someone, especially someone at a military academy, by a silly hand gesture that in my eyes has two other wildly different connotations than the one concocted on 4chan two years ago.
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