POW 07 Fairey

[jjbehren]

You know what's really creepy? I think that was Artoholic's 911th post...

Oh yeah, and I like how that post starts out with the extreme, attacking and condescending "why don't we cut off their heads and beat their dead bodies" and ends up with "we need to sit down and talk about both sides." That tone in not conducive to talking.

It's like Bush running on the "change the tone in Washington" concept referring to partisanship. Or like Bill O' talking about the left being vicious and hateful.

[Kdh12]

Maybe we should cut their heads off and beat their dead bodies instead of holding them on suspicion of terrorist activities. Or maybe we should just release them so they can go back to working on plots of horrific atrocity against humanity.

I wonder if Shepard Fairey would be beating the drum about this issue if his wife had been one of the 3,000 people killed on 9/11. Maybe he would feel differently if his best friend had been beheaded by Iraqi militants while serving his tour of duty. Maybe we should round up all of the bleeding heart liberals and hand them over to Al-Qaeda. I would think that they might start to change their attitude as they watch each other get horrifically executed one by one.

No one likes war and in a perfect world we would all be able to coexist in peace and harmony. Unfortunately the world is not perfect and there are people who would rather kill you and I then live in peace with us. The reality is that most of the people being held in Guantanamo would slit your throat just as soon as they would look at you. A small percentage of these people may be innocent, but that is the case in every prison in the world.

I realize that I am going to receive criticism for voicing my opinion, but I feel that it is important for people to consider both sides. We need to stop and think before blindly joining the herd behind our favorite artist or Hollywood star. Just because a movement is trendy or popular doesn’t make it right.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2005 ... 04info.pdf
http://www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/mission.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant

Don't but the print then

[kj1nyr]

For starters, regarding locking up "innocent people", I believe no one in Gitmo has had a trial yet. The first trial is coming up soon for a kid who was like 15 when he was captured. The people being held at Gitmo could be innocent, they could be horrific psychotic killers. The main problem being that they are being held without trial. Isn't the right to a fair trial one of those bill of rights thingys that we Americans are so proud of? :note sarcasm:

I want my country back.

oh, and btw, nice poster. Can't quite decide if I want it though.

expat New Yorker (so don't give me no 9/11 sermon, New Yorkers lived it, twice!),
KJ

[jjbehren]

Isn't the right to a fair trial one of those bill of rights thingys that we Americans are so proud of?

The loophole is that the people there are not Americans so the bill of rights does not technically apply.

[DeltaSigChi4]

There have been people held and released from Gitmo that were innocent. Off the top of my head, the Chinese moslems who got handed for bounty are just one of the most notable CLEARLY INNOCENT individuals held for years in appalling isolation. The U.S. government itself has admitted that they are completely innocent.

The above is regarding kj's post.

E

[artoholic]

I can honestly say that if my wife was killed in the 9/11 attacks I would still feel the way I do about torture and holding innocent people.

(The majority of people being held in Guantanamo are not innocent. They are prisoners of war and individuals who have conspired to commit acts of terror, and or aided and abetted terrorists. As with many prisoners during wartime they are being interrogated for information that can and has been used to save lives. There are unconventional and controversial methods being employed in order to extract information from these individuals, but whether or not these people are being “tortured” is up to interpretation. All I know is that the world is likely a safer place with them behind bars)

This country's penal system was built around the concept of "it's better to let ten guilty people go free than to convict one innocent one." Locking up mass quantities of innocent people is one giant step toward a dictatorship/authoritarian government, not a democracy. (Side note, interesting note I just read comparing an authoritarian government to a democracy: Authoritarian governments have ready access to information about its citizens and its citizens are limited in their ability to obtain information about the government. A democracy is the opposite.) If you want to live under authoritarian government than please leave this country. That is not what America is. I am sure there are a lot of authoritarian governments that would take you.

(The current state of the country is a long ways from being an authoritarian run system.)

Not to mention the fact that "Iraqi militants" as you call them had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11!! You must watch a lot of Faux (Fox) News.

(What many people fail to recognize is that it is all connected. It doesn’t matter what you call them; Iraqi militants, terrorists, Al-Qaeda, Islamic, extremists or murderous bastards. They are one and the same and they all hate you and I with a burning passion. Being Canadian I actually don’t watch Fox News, but I do know that this whole mess would have never happened if it were not for 9/11.)

Now, because of big brother, I am now on a government watch list for writing the post. God help us all.

(Unless you are involved in terrorist activities or plotting to overthrow the government “big brother” is not going to give a damn about what you say or what you are doing. They are not going come and barge your door down because you emailed your buddy about smoking a joint. Personally, I am glad that the government is watching out for our safety and working hard to ensure that nothing like 9/11 ever happens again.)

That said; I will likely still try to purchase this print. I think that it is thought provoking and controversial. Just look at the interesting conversation that it has sparked on EB. Besides, if I ever decide to sell it I will probably be able to get hundreds for it from George Clooney or Susan Sarandon

[But-we-unleashed-a-lion]

You know what's really creepy? I think that was Artoholic's 911th post...

Oh yeah, and I like how that post starts out with the extreme, attacking and condescending "why don't we cut off their heads and beat their dead bodies" and ends up with "we need to sit down and talk about both sides." That tone in not conducive to talking.

It's like Bush running on the "change the tone in Washington" concept referring to partisanship. Or like Bill O' talking about the left being vicious and hateful.

for record..

[artoholic]

Isn't the right to a fair trial one of those bill of rights thingys that we Americans are so proud of?

The loophole is that the people there are not Americans so the bill of rights does not technically apply.

Yeah, they also waived their rights when they flew two planes into the Word Trade Center. That's a joke btw, mostly

They will receive trial, but until that time the U.S. government has the authority to hold them. The prisoners in Guantanamo also have the right to appeal their sentence once a year, which many of them do. The problem is that the majority of them are guilty of whatever they have been accused of, so few of them are successful in their appeals.

[artoholic]

You know what's really creepy? I think that was Artoholic's 911th post...

Oh yeah, and I like how that post starts out with the extreme, attacking and condescending "why don't we cut off their heads and beat their dead bodies" and ends up with "we need to sit down and talk about both sides." That tone in not conducive to talking.

It's like Bush running on the "change the tone in Washington" concept referring to partisanship. Or like Bill O' talking about the left being vicious and hateful.

It's called sarcasm my friend. I don't really think that we should be cutting anybody's head off, but you know the irony is that they would do it to you. I was simply trying to emphasis my point of view.
One of the biggest problems with politics is that everyone considers themselves to be either democratic or republican, liberal or conservative and the world is not that black and white. I have plenty of views that would be considered to be liberal, but I also have a number of views that would likely be labeled as conservative. We need to judge each situation individually and stop worrying about whether or not we are going to be labeled as a liberal or conservative, democrat or republican.

[kevron62007]

double post

[kevron62007]

You know what's really creepy? I think that was Artoholic's 911th post...

Oh yeah, and I like how that post starts out with the extreme, attacking and condescending "why don't we cut off their heads and beat their dead bodies" and ends up with "we need to sit down and talk about both sides." That tone in not conducive to talking.

It's like Bush running on the "change the tone in Washington" concept referring to partisanship. Or like Bill O' talking about the left being vicious and hateful.

It's called sarcasm my friend. I don't really think that we should be cutting anybody's head off, but you know the irony is that they would do it to you. I was simply trying to emphasis my point of view.
One of the biggest problems with politics is that everyone considers themselves to be either democratic or republican, liberal or conservative and the world is not that black and white. I have plenty of views that would be considered to be liberal, but I also have a number of views that would likely be labeled as conservative. We need to judge each situation individually and stop worrying about whether or not we are going to be labeled as a liberal or conservative, democrat or republican.

Yes their are some terrorists that probably should be locked up in Gitmo, but there were also some questionable methods used to round up the suspects. Paying people in Afghanistan to turn in other terrorists is not a very solid method. Most of the people in third world countries are extremely poor and would turn in their brother as a terrorist for a cheeseburger. The bottom line of the whole argument is that prisoners sit in Gitmo six years after the attack and yet none of them receive a trial, the Government either needs to produce evidence and charge them with a crime or let them go, bottom line. I do not give a damn if it is through a military tribunal or a trial in court, they deserve their day in the legal system one way or another. They also deserve competent legal representation, interpreters so they can understand what their rights are and to be treated with dignity until they are proven guilty. The Bush administration used the 9/11 attacks to push their agenda and trample on our civil liberties that is a fact. I am an American and proud of it, but I do not agree with the way the current Bush administration has handled the whole situation after the 9/11 attacks nor do I agree with how they have handled the Iraq war. I think in ten years it will be even more evident that Bush has probably been the worst and one of the most corrupt President's the United States has ever seen. I do not think you should attack Shepard Fairey because he made a poster you disagree with, hell I am not even that big of a fan of his posters, but I respect his basic rights to free speech. I also respect your rights to your opinion through free speech I just think you are wrong to attack the artist because you disagree with the content of his work.

I think probably the most ironic thing is that you plan on purchasing this poster, which in turn means you are supporting not only the artist that you just ripped apart, but also witnesstorture.org who you obviously disagree with.

[username]

the discussion here makes this poster a success already.

[willg]

[/quote]I think probably the most ironic thing is that you plan on purchasing this poster, which in turn means you are supporting not only the artist that you just ripped apart, but also witnesstorture.org who you obviously disagree with.[/quote]

I couldnt agree more.

[freaksmeout]

Fair enough. I was a U.S. American troop who served in Irak though. And we already lost. It has no military solution.

E

You served in Iraq but didn't lean how to spell it ? Interesting.

[kevron62007]

the discussion here makes this poster a success already.

Exactly Fairey achieved exactly what he intended to by making the poster. It opens up the door for dialogue surrounding the whole issue.