Drunken Promises 15 Doyle

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RambosRemodeler
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:19 am

Kramerica wrote:
selenite wrote:
danieldanger wrote:put the other peoples toys away
Just don't act like you're above it, dude — you're way too high up on your horse. If you hadn't reached the mondo masses with Star Wars, Star Trek, Lost and a ton of "other peoples toys" properties, you wouldn't still be drawing ambiguously-titled pictures of ghost nurses in old houses for anybody. People around here don't want to hear a new band playing originals, they just want covers of songs they've already heard.

And don't forget who started the company that pays you to draw movie posters. Doyled.
This post is so full of stupid it amazes me.
I'm assuming you've never seen him post before today?

This will be the dumbest thing EBers read today.
Last edited by RambosRemodeler on Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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choke wrote:I won't give up a flip that I can get myself to someone who is convinced they need it. None of us need any of this fudge. It's art. It's not medicine.
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RambosRemodeler
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:22 am

mcnail wrote:
selenite wrote:And don't forget who started the company that pays you to draw movie posters. Doyled.
Wrong.
Kevin tong built mondo. He told me so.
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choke wrote:I won't give up a flip that I can get myself to someone who is convinced they need it. None of us need any of this fudge. It's art. It's not medicine.
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Dnovi
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:22 am

This thread...

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matowest
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:23 am

RambosRemodeler wrote:
mcnail wrote:
selenite wrote:And don't forget who started the company that pays you to draw movie posters. Doyled.
Wrong.
Kevin tong built mondo. He told me so.
Just don't ask him to sign the checks, amirite? :P

EDIT: I kid, I kid
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jkw3000
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:26 am

I heard Mondo was built on an ancient Indian burial ground that's cursed them to never secure likeness rights
35mmpaul wrote:We are addicted to things that hurt our butts.
1000steps
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:34 am

or an ancient mental hospital
Welcome to the sleaze pit
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HenryGaleWasHere
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:36 am

crunchyy wrote:I realize Tim said he was done and probably won't see this, but I wanted to tag up with my experience of the whole thing.

I was unaware of Tim's business model. I saw the FB thread unfold and thought it was fun. When I jumped in, I paid for a small print that would probably get hung on my wall as a silly goof. When he changed the size, I didn't complain because, although the chances of a larger print making my wall were zero, it was already selling for enough money that I figured there was no room to complain; utility had been replaced with value.

I bought two t-shirts after that. Now that I find out that Tim reprints editions often, and that the first reprint is at the size I'd originally bought. I'm not terribly thrilled on the front that others will now have what I was promised and the value that was my reason for not asking for a refund is no longer there.

I can understand Tim's argument. What I don't understand is why he doesn't simply do as other artists do and hold on to some of his APs and harvest some of the aftermarket value that way. His call to revolution to do it differently doesn't seem to have garnered many artists doing the same, and in the absence of that, using the same marketing terminology to sell a similar product and then treating it completely differently after the fact smacks of convenient sophistry.

I also get that, staring at a bunch of potential demand, it's tempting to make the argument to yourself and get yourself convinced that this is about a new model. After the fact, it's also easy to find all the rhetorical holes that allow you to think that you aren't being dishonest when using the trappings of the other model that most artists use while marketing your own. Money spends regardless of how it ethically it was acquired.

But the bedrock of the argument appears to be "you all know me and how I do." And I, for one, didn't.
Doyle'd
emac
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:57 am

Cool story, bros.
danieldanger
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:18 pm

selenite wrote:
danieldanger wrote:put the other peoples toys away
Just don't act like you're above it, dude — you're way too high up on your horse. If you hadn't reached the mondo masses with Star Wars, Star Trek, Lost and a ton of "other peoples toys" properties, you wouldn't still be drawing ambiguously-titled pictures of ghost nurses in old houses for anybody. People around here don't want to hear a new band playing originals, they just want covers of songs they've already heard.

And don't forget who started the company that pays you to draw movie posters. Doyled.
well Mr '12 Art Historian, the reason i got asked to do mondo posters, including the famous mondo LOST posters* curated by Mondo founder Tim Doyle**, is because i had already been doing just fine doing my own original work. my personal art prints have outsold my licensed work 20 to 1 easy, because thats what i do and have always done and thats whats most important to me. the mondo stuff are ok paying jobs, theyre decent promotion, and i certainly owe them for the some nudges over the years and ALOT of really good times; but if you think a 10 year full time art career, including a running series of sold out gallery shows, was founded on a handful of mondo posters (i actually havent done that many) i was at best decently happy with (pyschos dope, cowboysvsaliens was wack), you really have no idea how hard an arts career actually is. if i never drew another licensed job for a movie property, or tv show, id be fine, because ive spent 10 years hustlin hustlin every day with my ghost nurses. its fun, but id just spend the time doing my own thing. but obviously, yes, at some point im probably going to draw Batman on the roof of Joannes Fabrics & Crafts, because why the fu<k would you not?

anyways, now that the kids are asleep.

the core of that last response was not "HE DOES POP CULTURE STUFF AND THATS BAD!!!", we all do it now and then because pop culture is the universal language. its impossible to not speak in star wars quotes and not want to put chris pratt on a dinosaur or batman on the roof of IKEA*** because that shits hilarious, when youre taking something culturally eternal and turning it on its head. (for what its worth tim, ive been vocal to olly and mitchell personally on the subject of being too 'heres that thing you like!') ...its simply that comparing/applying doyles business model to my own is pointless, because theres more to his model than 'i keep everything in print, and you can too!'. pretty easy to estimate that over 90% of his recent work is direct reference pop culture (according to flipping through a few pages of his section here on EB), and a fairly large proportion of that isnt licensed or official. thats a huge part of why the business model "works", because its not hard to sell unofficial Dr Who and Star Wars merch to a world that loves Dr Who and Star Wars when you dont have to answer to Corporate Dr Who or Star Wars. i dont mean to sound overly high-horse or critical, but the fact is that the roads been paved. but as mentioned, i would simply be curious what would happen if Tim took a year and focused on playing in his own world, his own characters and narratives, because i feel his original personal work art prints have always been his strongest. it very much could still reference and evoke pop culture, because its obviously a language he speaks with, but at its core be its own thing.


[*official lost posters were curated by 1988, the gallery that gave me a sold out gallery show of my personal work before that print, and two more after.]
[** putnam'd & danger'd ]
[*** the back half of those prints were thrown in a dumpster outside SDCC, true story.]
Last edited by danieldanger on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kannibaliztik
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:23 pm

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"We can hold out through this endless dark, all a fire needs is a single spark"
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jkw3000
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:40 pm

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35mmpaul wrote:We are addicted to things that hurt our butts.
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noeldaddy
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:53 pm

Problem is, if Doyle relied solely on his own art prints and creation for a year, he'd lose an enormous amount of money. Not saying that his stuff is bad, just saying it wouldn't sell as well.
He may be sketchy with his wording over edition sizes, but one thing is abundantly clear - Tim Doyle loves money and will do just about anything to get more of it.
I really have nothing against him. I didn't buy DP (haha, the irony) or get duped or whatever. I wish him all the best and I agree, his art prints are sick (one of my favorite prints of all time is his CBGB's). In the end this was a valuable learning experience for many.
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jkw3000
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:55 pm

noeldaddy wrote: He may be sketchy with his wording over edition sizes, but one thing is abundantly clear - Tim Doyle loves money and will do just about anything to get more of it.
Don't forget the "having sex with people's mothers" part. He loves that too.
35mmpaul wrote:We are addicted to things that hurt our butts.
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MercuryD
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:09 pm

This had been extremely entertaining to read.
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Darkknight37
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Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:16 pm

Shouldn't all this be in the release discussion? Just sayin'.
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