Prometheus 14 Manev

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ChefFerrari
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:38 am

From an artist by the name of kaNO
Don't complain about your favorite art stores closing if you only create art on your computer, you contributed to it's demise.
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ChefFerrari
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:14 am

ajmmck wrote:
Brian2013 wrote: I wonder what they will do with them.
Pretty sure there's a spot for them next to these bad boys!
Funny you should mention that
Unearthing E.T.: A Legendary Atari Mystery Finally Gets Closure

http://mashable.com/2014/04/25/et-landfill-dig/
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Danny4342
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:15 am

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Last edited by Danny4342 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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automator
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:16 am

New image Prometheus 14 Manev - Source
Tim Bradstreet's Punisher art. The source image for the Manev piece.

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Danny4342
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:23 am

Sniffer85 wrote:I wish I could vote a second time for this to be potw, all plagiarism is ugly and the defence of it at any level is unacceptable, my guess is all his stuff is questionable now, naive to think he hasn't done it before, hopefully it's the last we see if him
I really wish I'd had more time to get into this over the last couple of days, but unfortunately, I haven't. Comments like the above are what are unacceptable IMHO. The kind of comments being thrown around here are crazy. Has anyone actually looked at the two prints side by side, unaltered and at a reasonable resolution? I feel as though every person calling this artist a tracer or plagiarist obviously haven't and are either naive or entirely ignorant of the level of talent it takes to come up with a piece with this polished a look in a screenprint. It's obvious that Marko has used a Tim's image as reference, but take a good look at the images. In the full side by side, there is little if anything that comes close to matching the silhouette between Punisher and Prometheus. The character is front and centre in the print, as we've seen in promo posters since movies were first marketed - Bond, Scarface, Dracula, Frankenstein, The Graduate etc etc etc ALL have a single figure in their campaign and would create a similar match. The physique, detailing and lighting on the Engineer do absolutely nothing to support a claim that this was lifted in any way other than a reference - as a traditional artist might use a marionette.

We then come to the facial features. Here it is clear that there are similarities in the lower face. Did Marko use this as a reference? Absolutely. Did he trace it stroke for stroke? Absolutely not. What everyone has been basing their comments on is a very small, very low resolution series of Jpegs, each with a steady progression of one print being faded over the other. As you view each image in sequence, you're LOOKING for similarities as they're introduced, and with the quality being what it is and the final comparison panel STILL not having the Punisher faded out completely, you're left with the impression that these may as well be carbon copies. As I said. Tim's piece was obviously used as a reference, but does that mean Manev's piece has no artistic value? Look at the ears - are they similar? Yes. Are they identical? No. The same for the neck, his brow, the cheekbones, the shape of his head.

As many up and coming artists, I'm sure Marko doesn't have the money to find a model of similar physicality to the engineer to come and sit beneath an intense light for a couple of hours so he could sketch them. So he used a reference, like artists have for hundreds, if not thousands of years. I think he did a damned good job, personally. We live in a digital world. Artists have a whole new set of tools and time constraints put upon them to create what they do. I'm a graphics artist, but I'm lucky enough to be a motion graphics animator. Although I know After Effects, Illustrator and a good deal about Photoshop and recreate and manipulate images every day, there is no WAY I could come up with anything like Marko or the majority of artists working above a certain level can. Those who use phrases like "it's JUST a few filters", "threw it together in a couple of hours from tracings" etc I'm fairly positive have very little idea of what they're talking about, if any at all. If making art that looks as good as this is so easy, why isn't everyone doing it? I make my living as a digital artist and work with the same tools as these guys do, but I know for a fact that I can't recreate this kind of style, so I don't try. Marko should be respected for creating a great piece of art, whether he used a reference or not. Ask ANY artist if they draw from memory and I can guarantee that you'll receive the same response from every one. No. EVERYBODY uses references. Some come closer to their source than others, but if they're clearly not "tracing" doesn't that just mean that they're one of the more talented artists out there?

I'm sure there will be many who dismiss this as a fanboy rant, but I've never met Marko and I only own a couple of his pieces. My taking the time to find the images that those who started this witchhunt obviously couldn't, then spewing this diatribe at 5 am comes purely from the fact that I find absolutely abhorrent that an artist can be so vilified and have his name dragged through the mud by those who clearly aren't in possession of all the facts. To publicly wish for someone's career to end on such a flimsy premise is absolutely pathetic and those who made this kind of statement should feel ashamed of themselves. Imagine if this happening to you, a friend or a relative, who'd done nothing other than what artists have done throughout history. Use a reference.

Lastly, I understand the decision by Mondo to withdraw the sale of the print - with less than 24 hours to really investigate this, a knee-jerk reaction to protect their interests is well within their right. I hope however that in the cold light of day they can see how little wrong Manev has done here and that they made their assumptions from the same grainy Jpegs that so many EBeans members have seen fit to crucify the artist over. The print measures 24"x36" at best, there is a 3"x5" portion of this print that COULD even be construed as "ripping off" someone else's work. I stand by my conviction that it is merely a reference and that the print on the whole is perhaps the best we've seen for this property and from this artist.

tl;dr - Actually looking at the pieces side by side, it's clear that at best Marko Manev used only the lower portion of the character's face as a reference. In the absence of having an Engineer come and sit for a sketch, this would seem the smartest place to get a reference for a piece where the central focus is on a single character lit from above. All other aspects of the piece are clearly his (except Geiger - but why try and reimagine THAT crazy SOB!). It doesn't benefit me to change anyone's mind, I just felt that the way this artist has been treated has been incredibly unfair up to this point.

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The two full images side by side, unaltered and at a higher resolution than previously posted. It's clear that nothing but the lower half of the face is even in question of being "traced"

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The two heads, where similarities can be drawn. Although close, none of the facial features match exactly here. There are similarities here, but no more than any that would come from an artist's reference.

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For those who don't see a likeness between Manev's Engineer and that from the film. If you took the image he created and showed it to a thousand people, not ONE of them would come up with Thomas Jane as the reference. Manev has captured the look and feel of the character pretty well IMO.
Last edited by Danny4342 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fordwd
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:34 am

:clap: :clap:

Well said, I completely agree with you on this one Danny4342!
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Danny4342
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:39 am

fordwd wrote::clap: :clap:

Well said, I completely agree with you on this one Danny4342!
Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm sure not everyone will, but I felt I had to say something now I have the chance. :pint:
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fallchild
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:13 am

fordwd wrote::clap: :clap:

Well said, I completely agree with you on this one Danny4342!
Same, I don't post often but just felt I should say I totally agree with everything Danny said.

I've been a Bradstreet fan for years and also love a lot of Manev's work. I was looking forward to having this on my wall!
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thisisjosh
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:56 am

It was silly for everyone to go off of that stupid JPEG with none of the images completely faded out of the final image.
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Loobaz
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:14 am

Danny4342 wrote:
If you took the image he created and showed it to a thousand people, not ONE of them would come up with Thomas Jane as the reference. Manev has captured the look and feel of the character pretty well IMO.
Good post Danny...

(I have no dog in this race, but I find it interesting none-the-less...(not in an artist bashing kind of way))

But, doesn't this quote just show that this image is not individual enough? This was shown to a thousand people (likely more, I know), and people did come up with Thomas Jane as the reference.

Not being a dick, just thought if that was the basis for being an individuals own work, then this one didn't pass that test.

I understand the pose may have helped with some (not sure if you meant just the image of his face), but it was clearly identifiable as a bit too close to another artists work. Even the makers of the print agree with that.
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FlapJack
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:00 am

Loobaz wrote:Good post Danny...
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Sharpie
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:54 pm

Excellent work, Danny. So glad someone took the time to go over everything in detail.
Plus, posting all those images (especially the side by side) really puts everything in its proper perspective.
Now let's get this print released. :pint:
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pewter14
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:24 pm

Appreciate the time to think it out, I certainly don't want to ruin this guy's career ... but, I think you're being a bit too lenient and there should to be a lot of thought going on in his head on how he's going to move forward.

The thing that struck me about your post is this ...
Danny4342 wrote: As many up and coming artists, I'm sure Marko doesn't have the money to find a model of similar physicality to the engineer to come and sit beneath an intense light for a couple of hours so he could sketch them. So he used a reference, like artists have for hundreds, if not thousands of years. .
If his reference was a 2 dimensional piece, why does he have to pay someone hours to sit under a hot light? Find someone to pose like he wants, take their picture ... boom, reference. What he did was insanely lazy (at the very least, far too hasty), and not crediting it was such terrible judgement.

Then there's this ...
Mondo wrote:We’re not down with this type of thing ...
This speaks volumes.
mistersmith wrote:Brady is one of the best QBs in history and will forever been seen as such.
Two links every EB member should read, please take a moment:

EB Wiki - How to Ship a Print in a Tube

Expressobeans For Sale Forum - Open Market Guidelines
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hellosir
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:30 pm

I'm sorry, did Danny just say there were no exact matches in the faces? Give me a break
The chin shadowing, as well as the lines extending out near the nose, are exact
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RiotAct
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Celsius wrote:
maxpower9 wrote:In my Humblest Opinion.

Voting for this Print as "EB Weekly Award Winner" is making a mockery of what EB is about.
Art of the year already stopped having any sort of gravitas when Horkey's fudge won last year.
I know, right? MBW and Drake should have taken the categories instead. RIGGED.
1000steps wrote:Gift payments are like unprotected sex - always a bad idea with strangers... If you are gonna do it, do it with someone you trust absolutely.
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