Why are Picture Frames and Matting Boards so Expensive!?!?!

General art-related discussion.
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SPAC04
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:17 am

Chris217h wrote:
1000steps wrote:If you don't like spending money for quality, buy junk prints and hang them in cheap plastic frames from Walmart. Problem solved.
Nah, I'll just buy extras and sell them. I'm not going to spend my money on overpriced stuff out of principle, but the people who spend 10-20 times what I payed for the print can.
Chris217h wrote:Really why the hell are picture frames so expensive!?!?. Even some of the cheapest matting is more than I paid for the cost of the Mondo print that I could sell for over $600 now. Even for the cheapest materials it's $200+ to frame anything of decent size. It would probably be easier to buy a $700 60" 4K tv and just get high res images images of the prints and switch them out on there. I mean there's no way wood and glass should cost more than a tv, new game system, etc.. It's just drymounting crazy that people pay that much
What a wanker

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Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:00 am

ha, awsome gif.
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KingOfNothing
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:27 am

Supply vs. demand. In this case it's not because frames are in short supply, just the opposite, buyers aren't there so the prices go up. Sure they'll sell you cheap frames all day to get you in the store (buy one, get one for a penny, etc.,) but they know that eventually you'll want to "take care of" a certain prized piece. And you'll pay, you'll pay dearly. Next thing you know you're hooked on that crack like a stripper lap dancing in Vegas on Super Bowl weekend.
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matowest
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:29 am

KingOfNothing wrote: like a stripper lap dancing in Vegas on Super Bowl weekend.
She's just trying to get enough cash to pay for that Horkey frame-up.

"Why can't his prints be 24x36?" she asks.
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fribhey
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:20 am

KingOfNothing wrote:Supply vs. demand. In this case it's not because frames are in short supply, just the opposite, buyers aren't there so the prices go up. Sure they'll sell you cheap frames all day to get you in the store (buy one, get one for a penny, etc.,) but they know that eventually you'll want to "take care of" a certain prized piece. And you'll pay, you'll pay dearly. Next thing you know you're hooked on that crack like a stripper lap dancing in Vegas on Super Bowl weekend.
it has nothing to do with supply and demand.

- materials cost money (preservation/archival quality materials are very expensive, especially museum glass)
- tools cost money
- knowledge and craftsmanship costs money
- time to do the job it costs money

if you want it cheaper then do it yourself. go out, buy the tools, materials, etc and frame the artwork you have. do you think an electrician will only change you $20 to come to your house to change an outlet or light switch because of supply and demand or because a switch/outlet only costs $10-15 at home depot? electricians, plumbers or any kind of skilled craftsmen are not going to charge you less because there are more customers, if anything, the more in demand you, which usually is a result of the quality of work you do, are the higher your costs are going to be. there's no difference to hiring a professional framer, who uses professional materials and professional tools and the knowledge to use them than hiring an electrician to replace an outlet or light switch for you. you can either change that switch/outlet at cost yourself (or frame the art/print yourself) or higher someone to do it for you.

until you learn a craft, or get an education, about something you no nothing about, stop dictating the value of someone else's knowledge, craft/skills and time. if you think a CUSTOM frame should be less than a $40 print then good luck finding it, museum glass alone costs a hell of a lot more than that. if you do find a cheap ass framer then don't come here in a few years when you try to take the print out and find that it's either drymounted or severely sun damaged... you get what you pay for.
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HenryGaleWasHere
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:33 am

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Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:47 am

^^^omfg, I'm dying in the office. :lol: :lol: :lol:
applehead
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:53 am

It just adds up, and if you're not doing it yourself, you're paying for skilled labor, and some framers are straight up artists themselves like Corey from Further Frames.

You can pay up to $900 for a really good mat cutter. I am about to replace mine. It is old and not true, meaning my cuts are not a pure 90 degree angle which f's everything up. I believe it's beyond repair, but if anyone has any tips, pls lmk. I'm looking at a step up or 2 on my next mat cutter, and that's gonna cost me $400-500.

And it all depends on how high of quality you want in framing. You could get something framed for < $50 (no mat, plexi etc). Or you could go archival, acid-free mat, foam core, uv protective glass. The price depends on what the consumer is looking for.

Bet yeah, it is not cheap, thats for sure
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jjttdw
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:37 pm

I buy almost everything on-line and do 80% of the framing myself. The only thing I source locally are mats since I want to see how it looks with art. For a simple frame job it isn't that difficult.
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soupysound
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:55 pm

about a year ago, i decided to invest in tools to build my own frames. a bit of a cash outlay upfront, but not too bad considering the number of frames i can build with relative ease and at a fraction of the cost. DIY framing just takes a bit of practice with the right tools and it becomes a breeze. don't think i'll ever pay for a custom frame again.

it definitely involves a bit more time from start to finish, but i just chip away at projects an hour here / an hour there until it is done. some large pieces that would cost $500-800 for a custom frame can be done for less than $200 (using conservation materials, UV-AG acrylic, etc).
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KingOfNothing
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:14 pm

fribhey wrote:
KingOfNothing wrote:Supply vs. demand. Like a stripper lap dancing in Vegas on Super Bowl weekend.
it has nothing to do with supply and demand.

- materials cost money (preservation/archival quality materials are very expensive, especially museum glass)
- tools cost money
- knowledge and craftsmanship costs money
- time to do the job it costs money

if you want it cheaper then do it yourself. go out, buy the tools, materials, etc and frame the artwork you have. do you think an electrician will only change you $20 to come to your house to change an outlet or light switch because of supply and demand or because a switch/outlet only costs $10-15 at home depot? electricians, plumbers or any kind of skilled craftsmen are not going to charge you less because there are more customers, if anything, the more in demand you, which usually is a result of the quality of work you do, are the higher your costs are going to be. there's no difference to hiring a professional framer, who uses professional materials and professional tools and the knowledge to use them than hiring an electrician to replace an outlet or light switch for you. you can either change that switch/outlet at cost yourself (or frame the art/print yourself) or higher someone to do it for you.

until you learn a craft, or get an education, about something you no nothing about, stop dictating the value of someone else's knowledge, craft/skills and time. if you think a CUSTOM frame should be less than a $40 print then good luck finding it, museum glass alone costs a hell of a lot more than that. if you do find a cheap ass framer then don't come here in a few years when you try to take the print out and find that it's either drymounted or severely sun damaged... you get what you pay for.
Oh, ok son, I'll presume you were referring to me? Says the person who can't lead off a sentence with proper capitalization. Get an education? Ok, check! Learn a craft? Let me look, yup, 25+ years and going strong, check! I'm not claiming to be the framing master that you supposedly are, my opinion isn't meant to be taken as gospel like yours apparently is. Mine was more of an overall generalization sprinkled with a little tongue and cheek humor, especially my last sentence. I apologize for speaking out of turn/giving an opinion without first checking in with you. Next time I will, I can guarantee that. Or maybe not, yeah, I'm probably lying there. So you can push your glasses back up on your nose and take a deep breath. Relax Francis, you can breathe now. Ahhh, that feels good doesn't it?

From your response I'll put your age range at somewhere in your early to mid-thirties. Some knowledge under your belt but not quite there yet. You're argument is craftsmanship, and you'll always pay a premium for that, I don't disagree ok? But if everyone and there mother were buying frames/glass/archival material everyday 24/7/365 and demanding frame-ups, you would for sure see a rise in people providing that service - and along with it - undercutting rates competing for business, hence, costs go down. You see how that works? Sure, you'll have those "true" craftsmen like in every single industry, who will charge accordingly. You're paying for the experience not the materials in that case. There's an ecosystem in place. And high quality frames are costing a premium because it's not like there's a mad dash for college graduates to jump in the "super lucrative" field of custom framing. I'm being completely sarcastic. So no need to get upset and correct me on the fact that "most framers do it for the love of the craft and most live paycheck to paycheck." That's blatantly obvious already. There, I finished your sentence for you.

I wish I could prove my point "supply vs. demand" in a simplified way that you could understand. Put it this way, if there were custom frame shops on every street corner alongside every McDonald's and Starbucks but not just monopolies, legitimate competition like Taco Bell and Del taco price would come down all across the board. Suppliers would be cranking out material, its not like all archival material is made from some extinct "archive tree" in the Amazon where rarity dictates price.

I'm going to slowly back out of this thread now... so if I don't respond anymore it's because I lost interest and have moved on.

Good day!
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mexicoisfun
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:25 pm

You tell em pop pop!!
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:37 pm

HenryGaleWasHere wrote:Image
Thought I'd never see this again.
just a foil for me today, thanks
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mistersmith
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:12 pm

jjttdw wrote:Here is a question...what is the most you've spent on framing something? I think I topped out right around $650 for the framing of a 42x42 large format Obey. Worth every penny.
On a print? Something like $750, because Nesting, but I chose too-nice materials because there's no such thing as too nice for Nesting.

On an original? Something like $950 with a hookup, for a job that shoulda cost about $1500. The piece is 48 x 60.

I also have about a dozen OG inks in frames that were less than $50 - American Frame basic black, plexi, spacers, no mat. It all works.
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iwokeinrelief
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Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:53 pm

mistersmith wrote:
jjttdw wrote:Here is a question...what is the most you've spent on framing something? I think I topped out right around $650 for the framing of a 42x42 large format Obey. Worth every penny.
On a print? Something like $750, because Nesting, but I chose too-nice materials because there's no such thing as too nice for Nesting.

On an original? Something like $950 with a hookup, for a job that shoulda cost about $1500. The piece is 48 x 60.

I also have about a dozen OG inks in frames that were less than $50 - American Frame basic black, plexi, spacers, no mat. It all works.
I think I spent around $900 framing my World Touring Letter, though I dropped a few other things off at the same time so that number might be a bit off. I've got a couple other ~$700 frame ups, though most of my stuff (of any real size) avearages at about $400 a pop.
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