Site Update - Capital Fundraising

Information on shipping, storing and repairing your art, plus your reviews on products for art collecting, making, storing, etc..

Postby sidewaysscott on Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:01 pm

Yamar wrote:At this point, I'm really just going to piont ya back to the donation site -- pretty much all the info that we're talking about publicly is posted there. I know that I'm inferring things, but your question reads to me like you're asking if we're taking requests from the masses to which the simple answer is no. Most of the plans in terms of development were talked about and planned quite a while ago - had to be part of things when we were trying to get estimates from developers. Does this mean that ideas/request fall on deaf ears? Of course not. But we're not always going to agree on what direction to take things either...


Ok, thanks. I'm not concerned with the requests whatsoever and don't care about that. Basically, if you don't reach the full value, does the site get rebuilt? And as Mfaith said, out of the already planned works, if funding doesn't come in, is there a priority list as to what gets done and what doesn't.
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Postby Wintermute on Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Donated (it was long overdue, anyways). Progress meters are nice and all, but I might be inclined to kick in a few more bucks if there were a more specific plan for updates than just "redevelop existing features, roll out the new site, and add new features". While that's an apt description of what needs to happen, it's also a generic roadmap to updates for any site.

turnJBup wrote:The big question...
WILL IT BE FREE TO SELL POSTERS ON THE NEW AND IMPROVED SITE?


Hopefully there's a definitive answer to this - I'd prefer my donation went to community-driven improvements rather than monetization, but ultimately it's a gift and its use is up to the people who run this place. I think with all the crowd-funding horror stories nowadays, people are going to be a little wary if communication isn't forthright.

golobulus wrote:Oh man, unintentionally inflammatory post retracted...


Eh, I wouldn't feel too bad about that post, auto-scraping is a good idea. I'm not Yamar, but I think the sentiment there was that it's maybe a little too tricky to implement successfully. Blog sites especially are more focused on organizing posts themselves, rather than the content of the post (which is the actual poster information that you'd want to scrape), so it could be difficult to accurately scrape poster info, and anything incorrect has the potential to clog up the database with erroneous entries / would have to eventually be fixed by a user anyways.
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Postby turnJBup on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:32 pm

Wintermute wrote:
turnJBup wrote:The big question...
WILL IT BE FREE TO SELL POSTERS ON THE NEW AND IMPROVED SITE?


Hopefully there's a definitive answer to this - I'd prefer my donation went to community-driven improvements rather than monetization, but ultimately it's a gift and its use is up to the people who run this place. I think with all the crowd-funding horror stories nowadays, people are going to be a little wary if communication isn't forthright.



That would be the ultimate screw over if mods sent around a collection plate to secretly turn this site into a place that taxes our sales like eBay or discogs.
Ready to donate again...
Please address the question when you can.
Thanks.
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Postby fredo on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:33 pm

We can still drink, right?
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Postby turnJBup on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Easy on the Fosters bro...
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Postby Yamar on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:11 pm

Wintermute wrote:Eh, I wouldn't feel too bad about that post, auto-scraping is a good idea. I'm not Yamar, but I think the sentiment there was that it's maybe a little too tricky to implement successfully. Blog sites especially are more focused on organizing posts themselves, rather than the content of the post (which is the actual poster information that you'd want to scrape), so it could be difficult to accurately scrape poster info, and anything incorrect has the potential to clog up the database with erroneous entries / would have to eventually be fixed by a user anyways.


This is basically it. Our database format really isn't structured (nor are all prints released/described in anywhere near similar fashion) to do this. As I'd said earlier, in a best case scenario, it would cull information that would still move to an approval line, waiting for a member of the site staff to have time to approve it. Honestly, we're betting that we are all better off doing user submissions as they are (generally) more complete and accurate - no help if an automated system brings in submissions that have so little or error filled information that it takes twice as long to locate what is the real meat for the entry. If there is time/energy/funding afterwards, this might get explored, but it's definitely low on the agenda.
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Postby Yamar on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:24 pm

turnJBup wrote:That would be the ultimate screw over if mods sent around a collection plate to secretly turn this site into a place that taxes our sales like eBay or discogs.
Ready to donate again...
Please address the question when you can.
Thanks.


We have been planning/discussing that part of the upgrades would be to alter user "lists" (primarily the FS/FT list, obviously) to a format more like something used by discogs. The big reason here is that it allows a user to set a price and a buyer to complete a sale more easily (if that's something a seller wants to do - set a piece up for "immediate" purchase). You can also do it the current / "old fashioned" way and just talk it out with the other party. Things like forum posted sales and such wouldn't be anything different from the current, I believe. Truly, if you knew how few people did something along the lines of "hey, I just used the forum to sell a $200 print - I'll kick $5 back to the site", you'd probably just shake your head - I know I have. We've tried encouraging that practice, but it has never had any real effect.

That said, yes - we have been talking about introducing a cut of "store based" sales going back to the site. The big reason for that? Donations have dropped by significantly from where they were 1.5-2 years ago. This may be due to the periods when the site was unreliable/unstable in speed and processing. But it also almost certainly due to a move of many groups/members to Facebook groups and such, just using EB as an information source as well.

We need to have/raise enough funds to keep the site rolling - that's priority one to me. If we can't rely on a regular rate of donations to cover that, then we have to be responsible to the site to at least try other methods of supplementing it. eBay helps quite a bit via commissions, but can be quite irregular depending on the randomness of who's buying what when.
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Postby Yamar on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:34 pm

sidewaysscott wrote:I'm not concerned with the requests whatsoever and don't care about that. Basically, if you don't reach the full value, does the site get rebuilt? And as Mfaith said, out of the already planned works, if funding doesn't come in, is there a priority list as to what gets done and what doesn't.


I had tried to cover this earlier, but may not have explained it well...

We have split the process in two for mostly this reason.
The first / main part of things is to get EB stable (in terms of downtime/crashes/speed) and up to date in a code sense (the current site was written over 10 years ago with very few updates since, mostly patchwork). More or less, this breaks down to about half of the budget of the full project.
As I think most adults would realize/assume, we have been trying to save funds for some time and feel that by one means or another, at least this first half will be completed. It NEEDS to be - the current state of EB just isn't healthy enough to endure. If no donations were raised from the user base, it could/would still happen, but would hurt the financial stability of the site significantly.

Then we have phase 2. Assuming we can get the funds together to do it all, then we can implement some of these other hopes and changes. But if we don't get there (or if it takes a bit longer to get there) then items in this part of the plan can be delayed - that was a big part of why we did the planning as such.

Make a little more sense? Site will be rebuilt regardless - just a "how does it affect other things on the business end" mostly. But if we don't get to full, it may be that we see where we are and talk about what items/features/plans might be accomplished with what we have. Cross that bridge when we get there (or at least when we can reliably see it on the path ahead)...
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Postby ErocAfellar on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:39 pm

Haven't received an email...?
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Postby turnJBup on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:54 pm

First off... I love this place.
Been here 12 years and donated 100.00 or more.
Thank you all for everything you have done for us freaks.

But...
Ten pages in and it comes to light we are donating to welcome in fees for selling?
Why do I feel like a chicken paying for a sharper axe?
That's a big thing to leave out.
I realize EB shouldn't be totally free, but in my humble opinion you mods should let us know exactly what your plans are.
What's our tax going to be?
10%? 12%?
Is there another way?
Part of the appeal is buying and selling without getting taxed.
It keeps the prices down.
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Postby mfaith on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:58 pm

His post said that the regular type of sales that we have on the site today wouldn't be affected. It'd likely just be the new (more featureful) store-based ones.
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Postby finneganm on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:06 pm

Will there be a full exchange integrated so that we can buy/sell futures on the next ZOMG? Will the collected works of each artist/band/movie be grouped together like an ETF so that we can go long Pearl Jam and Moss and short Thor 2 and Kurtz?
Last edited by finneganm on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby turnJBup on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:07 pm

mfaith wrote:His post said that the regular type of sales that we have on the site today wouldn't be affected. It'd likely just be the new (more featureful) store-based ones.


So the gallery, artist, or a major art website owner would be subjected to fees, not the " regular type " member...
I am not on here as much these days, but thinking about it, I don't recall too many of those types of sellers.
Don't they simply post a link to their stores? Or notify a time for a poster drop?
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Postby finneganm on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:09 pm

Will there be an integrated emulator for old Sierra On-Line games? If not, why?
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Postby fredo on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:10 pm

turnJBup wrote:Easy on the Fosters bro...


I ain't no traitor, mate.
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