America: The Trump Era

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Postby finneganm on Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:59 pm

Well, when social security was set up, people were dying on average about 10 years earlier than they are now. It doesn't have to be all or nothing either. Just make a penalty for drawing down earlier, like what currently happens, just moving the age bracket up.

If you don't address the fact that you're now paying for the extra 10 years, it goes away. Which is going to be much worse overall.
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Postby fredo on Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:06 pm

When social security was set up the country was in a financial death spiral. It is now the wealthiest nation on earth by a damned sight (EU being chopped into its constituent parts). If it goes away there will be no rational excuse, only a straw one.

My election slogan: America can afford this- pay up.
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Postby desch on Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:18 pm

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Postby fredo on Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:20 pm

finneganm wrote: Over a certain income level, you should start to get less than the people who will truly need it to live.


Missed this- and mostly agreed in principle so long as it is a high-ish bar. I don't see SS as being a golden ticket, but it is also not a meals on wheels/bare minimum to get by deal.

Danger would be in the means testing being tweaked to cut more and more people off over time and/or assholes telling you what counts as a living wage anymore.
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Postby TheThirdEye on Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:49 pm

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Postby Codeblue on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:20 pm

Yall are missing a big factor in the retirement age. A lot of companies get rid of their aging higher paid employees in favor of younger cheaper ones. Good luck getting a new job that pays well if you're laid off in your 50s.
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Postby virtualj on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:41 pm

finneganm wrote:Well, when social security was set up, people were dying on average about 10 years earlier than they are now. It doesn't have to be all or nothing either. Just make a penalty for drawing down earlier, like what currently happens, just moving the age bracket up.

If you don't address the fact that you're now paying for the extra 10 years, it goes away. Which is going to be much worse overall.

When it was set up there was also an income cap added to get the system in place, I.e. over a certain amount and you don't have to pay SS on it. Today that number is about $120k, so if you make less than that (like most people) you pay SS on every dollar. If you make more than that you only pay SS on the first $120k. Doesn't seem all that social to me.
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Postby fredo on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:49 pm

I'm mainly tired of hearing about the bottom line and social programs "not paying for themselves". It is a red herring. The GDP must be taxed to provide needed services at a "loss".
Else, what's the point of a society except to protect business interests. Why bother becoming the top of the food chain if you're going to force most of your species to suffer for not meeting some arbitrary invented hurdle.
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Postby cktbreaker on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:21 pm

Concentration of wealth yield into power (elections) and then power owing their corporate and financial masters and feeding them through things like deregulation, tax policy, legislation (rules of corporate governance) is the cycle we are stuck in. Corporations have been writing the laws for most areas of government and now we are seeing a complete takeover. Corporation and the financial sector don't like democracy. Democracy is for society. So we struggle because we let them in, thinking they somehow had our interests at heart. Basic but this is the problem.
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Postby virtualj on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:29 pm

cktbreaker wrote:Concentration of wealth yield into power (elections) and then power owing their corporate and financial masters and feeding them through things like deregulation, tax policy, legislation (rules of corporate governance) is the cycle we are stuck in. Corporations have been writing the laws for most areas of government and now we are seeing a complete takeover. Corporation and the financial sector don't like democracy. Democracy is for society. So we struggle because we let them in, thinking they somehow had our interests at heart. Basic but this is the problem.

Everyone just needs to assimilate incorporate.
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Postby fredo on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:29 pm

It's also that Joe Shmoe is an ignorant asshole.
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Postby cktbreaker on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:36 pm

What better way to keep Joe ignorant than by creation of a 'better' voucher school system, were money is diverted from public education to some private for profit organization, not in Joe neighborhood, joe is in the defund neighborhood. Same thing with the postal service, defund until is broken then claim its not functioning properly and people get pissed at it. You can see that happening right here on EB with the USPS woes thread, we join in in with our corporate spinsters thinking the usps sucks!
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Postby fredo on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:39 pm

It's not all the boogeyman's fault.

Though vouchers do suck.
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Postby cktbreaker on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:46 pm

Right it's not all the 'mans' fault but lets pick apart the financial and corporate well fare system before the social structure. After all they are the ones who supposedly live by the free market. This system is supposed to be about us not some business entity created on paper.
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Postby fredo on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:53 pm

It's about both. America is also an economy.
I accept the dichotomy, as a healthy standard of living for a big population requires trade/business/investment/etc. Be nice if big bidness and Joe Schmuck didn't immediately dive for the shotgun at the first sign of subsidy/someone else getting a break, though. Or if we all stopped lauding the exploits of cutthroats.
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