Deflate-Gate Thread: a.k.a. The Dumbest Scandal of All Time

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Postby pewter14 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:54 am

(EDIT - Posts moved out of NFL thread to keep this drivel all in one spot.)

So a small group of NFL owners are in Goodell's ear to keep Brady's suspension at 4 games. Ha ha, what a bunch of twats. If you can't beat 'em, suspend him. Pats will still be the AFC East favorite, you fuckholes.

I think the outcome of the appeal will still be a 1 or 2 game suspension and then Brady, with the NFLPA, will take the NFL to court. There will be an injunction so Brady's still playing week 1 and eventually, much like the Saints players, the suspension will be wiped away. Goodell should just wipe it away now, but he won't.

But now, the situation arises where if Goodell keeps it at 4 games it will create such an uproar that Greg Hardy and his domestic violence case is worth the same suspension as possibly knowing about maybe deflating footballs, none of which can be proven. A rule they care so much about that there have been ZERO adjustments to the rulebook heading into this season about the officials monitoring air pressure.

This is month 7 of this fiasco ... how the drymount does Roger Goodell make $30 - 45M a year???
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Postby mistersmith on Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:41 pm

pewter14 wrote:possibly knowing about maybe deflating footballs, none of which can be proven.


The Wells Report showed that the burden of proof was absolutely met that a) team equipment personnel were intentionally deflating footballs and b) that Brady knew it was happening. You know that.

It's pretty plainly stated in the report. Page 122 is where Conclusions begin and implicate the equiment guys, Brady is implicated on 126:

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/20 ... pionsh.pdf

pewter14 wrote:Greg Hardy and his domestic violence case is worth the same suspension


It's a tricky thing, to compare on-field rulebreaking to off-field domestic violence that, even through an egregious miscarriage of justice, didn't result in a conviction. But Greg Hardy playing football this season is drymounting disgusting, he's a total piece of fudge, and he should be rotting in a drymounting nasty-ass state pen. Lucky for him he lives in a state where you can literally buy off witnesses and that makes crimes go away.
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Postby GiantBoyDective on Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:53 pm

to paraphrase itsame

pewter is to the pats what cochran was to murderers.
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Postby TheBeard on Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:16 pm

I don't care if Brady did know and ordered the balls to be underinflated, the fact remains that you should not be able to convict someone with "more probable or not" without any direct proof. There should be zero suspension for this unless they actually have direct evidence of Brady's involvement.

They have a 250 page report with no evidence other than "he said/she said" which, in sports is absolutely worthless. This is all about Goddell hanging on to any shred of respectability as a power player in the NFL which he so obviously is not. I look forward to next year when a new commish comes in who actually puts the shape of the NFL as his top priority as opposed to doing whatever it takes to justify making an obscene amount of money doing virtually nothing.
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Postby fredo on Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:28 pm

Why would anyone read, much less buy that the Wells report meets some standard of...anything?
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Postby jkw3000 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:34 pm

I'm more pissed that we're stuck with talking about it still.
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Postby fredo on Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:53 pm

Amen.
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Postby pewter14 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:14 pm

Listen folks, I want this over just as much as you ... but as long as there's a chance it affects the 2015-16 season, it's relevant.

I have no clue why it's taken a full month after the appeal hearing for Goodell to say a decision is coming soon, only to then say there is no timetable ... or why the appeals process is set up this way ... or why fans of every NFL team aren't rallying to get this asshat fired. I'm sure the revenue they make on page clicks has something to do with it.


mistersmith wrote:The Wells Report showed ...


First, let's start here. Honestly smithy, do you think this report was impartial? You've read the whole thing, I'm sure of that. Knowing what you know about science, about Exponent, about this whole process ... do you think this report was impartial or someone creating a report to justify a preconceived notion? Do you really side with the Wells report?


mistersmith wrote:
pewter14 wrote:possibly knowing about maybe deflating footballs, none of which can be proven.


The Wells Report showed that the burden of proof was absolutely met that a) team equipment personnel were intentionally deflating footballs and b) that Brady knew it was happening. You know that.

It's pretty plainly stated in the report. Page 122 is where Conclusions begin and implicate the equiment guys, Brady is implicated on 126:

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/20 ... pionsh.pdf


Listen, I've stated before, there's a possibility of shenanigans going on in that bathroom, but there is no proof of it. "More probable than not" is based on scientific data which is immensely flawed, some wild accusations of quid pro quo that happens in every locker room and one text in thousands that used the term "deflator." There is no concrete proof it happened, sketchy at best evidence to show "more probably than not" and furthermore, not one text or note stating Brady asked for footballs to be tampered with after official inspection nor below legal playing limits. Not one.

Finally ... does the punishment fit the crime smithy, honestly? Compared to all the precedents set ... do you think what's been given to the Pats and Brady is equal to what other teams have received in similar situations? This is my major sticking point. The extent to which they've been punished is preposterous.

It's a witch hunt of bitter teams rallying against a team they cannot beat. The news that owners are pressuring Goodell to uphold the suspension is ridiculous if not hilarious. But certainly not stunning.
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Postby squalie on Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:19 pm

TheBeard wrote: the fact remains that you should not be able to convict someone with "more probable or not" without any direct proof.


Yeah, he should at least have a jury of his peers.
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Postby fredo on Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:55 pm

The "science" which launched this "investigation" has been positively skewered.
Everything that followed:
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Postby mistersmith on Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:54 pm

TheBeard wrote:I don't care if Brady did know and ordered the balls to be underinflated, the fact remains that you should not be able to convict someone with "more probable or not" without any direct proof.


The phrase "more probable than not" represents a legal term stretching back hundreds of years called Preponderance of Evidence. It's the same standard used to decide civil actions in the US.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... f+Evidence

pewter14 wrote:Honestly smithy, do you think this report was impartial?


Do you really think the NFL deliberately conspired against the Patriots, one of the biggest and most powerful teams/owners in the league? The golden boys of the sport? Come on.

And Wells' track record is one of getting the bad guys off. He represents corporations in class action suits and things like that. He's generally the defense in situations like these, not the attacker.

pewter14 wrote:one text in thousands that used the term "deflator."


And many, many more that describe a quid-pro-quo system for doctoring Brady's balls to his standards. And after the scandal broke, texts from Brady talking about covering it up and the guys "not being afraid" and keeping their mouths shut. And that's without having access to anything on Brady's phone -- because he wouldn't cooperate, which is another violation.

pewter14 wrote:Finally ... does the punishment fit the crime smithy, honestly? Compared to all the precedents set ... do you think what's been given to the Pats and Brady is equal to what other teams have received in similar situations? This is my major sticking point. The extent to which they've been punished is preposterous.


You had me until that last sentence. When a pitcher doctors a baseball he gets tossed. Which is fair. And Brady would/should have been tossed/suspended at any time this had been discovered. Given that, and the Pats franchise's history of cheating, I agree the punishment doesn't fit. But not because it's too strict. I think the Pats should have forfeited games in addition to Brady's suspension. Including the Colts game. Because when you repeat your crimes the punishments should escalate. Yes, that's harsh. So maybe they should stop cheating.

pewter14 wrote:It's a witch hunt of bitter teams rallying against a team they cannot beat. The news that owners are pressuring Goodell to uphold the suspension is ridiculous if not hilarious. But certainly not stunning.


A witch hunt? Dude! That's full-on tinfoil hat stuff. You think 31 other owners (well, like, 27 or so, because there are franchises like Cincinnati that honestly don't care about winning, Mike Brown gets paid either way) got together and decided to suspend Brady for 4 games for something they pulled out of thin air, because maybe 4 games will be enough to help Miami win the division? That's nuts. Robert Kraft was, is, and will be one of the most important owners in the league. He's the lead owner in both the labor and TV negotiations, isn't he? The other owners still need him.

What's more likely: a QB had his equipment guys doctor the balls just a little bit, in exchange for shoes and autographs and stuff, in order to make it a little bit easier to throw, and these guys all discussed as much in archived text messages...or...31 billionaires held a secret meeting and convinced Roger Goodell to go convince a hugely powerful lawyer to put his name on 250 pages of lies so that one player on one team could miss a handful of games in hopes of screwing that team over. That's crazy talk.
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Postby mistersmith on Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:54 pm

BTW, we should start a 2016 thread for new stuff. Deflategate is banned in the 2016 thread.
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Postby TheBeard on Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:00 pm

mistersmith wrote:
Do you really think the NFL deliberately conspired against the Patriots, one of the biggest and most powerful teams/owners in the league? The golden boys of the sport? Come on.


With everything that he's botched and with this particular case having no bearing on the lives of anyone outside of football (it's not rape, dui, domestic abuse) thus allowing Goddell to real with his own interests in mind without dire repercussions on the lives of innocent people, yes I do.

For too long everyone stated that Kraft played on a much different playing field than the rest of the owner and considering the case, the team and the consistent questioning of the ethical judgement of our commish, I do believe it's a conspiracy against the Pats. I believe most anything that happens behind closed doors in the NFL commissioners office is a conspiracy. I believe collusion runs rampant... far more than we know. I believe the intentionally deliberate manner in which this whole case has taken is well-calculated to give the impression of a fair and impartial judgement. I also believe that if the Pats didn't win the superbowl this all would have been swept under the rug.

Simply put I have ZERO faith in the high paid officials running this multi-billion dollar entity into the ground.
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Postby fredo on Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:19 pm

mistersmith wrote:Wells' track record is one of getting the bad guys off. He represents corporations in class action suits and things like that. He's generally the defense in situations like these, not the attacker.


But...that's exactly what he's doing here. The report is one big rationalization.

mistersmith wrote:Brady would/should have been tossed/suspended at any time this had been discovered.


No, he wouldn't have.

mistersmith wrote:BTW, we should start a 2016 thread for new stuff. Deflategate is banned in the 2016 thread.


I can get behind this- so long as this fantasy of NE's "history of cheating" is also excluded.
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Postby pewter14 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:36 pm

Smithy, we're still due to go drinking, we'll finish this up then. You've stretched my words beyond recognition and taken them to places they cetainly weren't meant to go.

Perhaps by then you can read into the "science" used by Exponent in that Wells report ... but hey, they can be trusted right? I mean, second hand smoke and asbestos don't cause cancer, either.

fredo's cut this at a good point ... "history of cheating" ...

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