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Postby fredo on Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:47 pm

But without the Hitler porn!

Starting up where the Dump thread left off:

jjttdw wrote:
fredo wrote:I wasn't saying let 'em keep at it. But the idea that they were as a nation going to fight to the last person and therefore nukes...it seems contrived. Or at least super convenient.


With respect, you should read up on the topic.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-history-okinawa/historians-battle-over-okinawa-ww2-mass-suicides-idUST29175620070406

Yep, that's right, civilians were ordered to kill themselves.

On Iwo Jima the Japanese troop strength was estimated at 20,530–21,060 troops pre invasion. At the end of it care to guess how many Japanese troops were captured? 216. Almost all the rest were killed. On Honshu they were teaching old people to attack with sharpened sticks. 10M more deaths in an invasion is not a crazy estimate. Truman faced a choice: drop a nuke or face 1.5M+ MORE Americans killed in an invasion. Bear in mind that they 1.5M would have been 3x more than had died up to that point.


Word. I accept that the Japanese were not going to go down easily and that this is about where my knowledge fizzles out into truisms. That article though implies that people were not the drones they've often been made out to be in these types of arguments.

Either way, what I was getting at was that you could possibly stop fighting them on the offensive, shift into a policing mode and hit the diplomacy hard. Maybe show them what the bomb could do some other way. Not knowing the ins and outs beyond "historians disagree", if they're pre-emptively killing themselves and losing 99.9999% of the army in a given battle, then they're not the enemy they were when it started. You'd (or I'd) think that knowing this could be used as a lever for a managed solution without an invasion or nukes. Let them save face somehow and do not allow re-militarization, but...

I'll read up some more - been meaning to forever.
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Postby jjttdw on Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:51 am

If half an islet commits suicide on the orders of the army or because of government propaganda you have to say that there were a lot of drones. Women threw their children off cliffs before jumping themselves. The more you read about wartime Japanese actions the more you will see how "fanatical" was the perfect term to describe them. Some of that mindset exists to this day.

If you've read much about Japan, then you've probably come across the saying "出る釘は打たれる" or, in English, “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” People usually use this saying to make a point about Japan, how it's hard to be different, and that any deviance is met with resistance.

My wife lived in Japan for years and is fluent in the language. She said one of the funniest things was that the most popular song sung at karaoke is Sinatra's "My Way."
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Postby fredo on Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 am

Islet folk are weird though.
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